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#Post#: 29132--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 8, 2024, 12:50 pm
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--- Quote from: Firestone link ---
>
> Yes., unfortunately my phone (iPhone SE, based on the model 5)
is very small and on the virtual keyboard the 5 & 6 numerical
keys are obviously next to each other horizontally across the
screen. Very easy to hit the wrong one. I find it hard to
believe that the council wouldn’t accept an honest mistake like
this.
>
--- End Quote ---
I too have this problem with mobile phone keyboards. I have
quite wide fingers and often press the wrong key several times
before I get the right one. I simply can't use apps for banking
or anything critical on a mobile phone. The world expects
everyone to be tech savy, they don't take into account people's
fingers differ in size, eyesight fades with age etc.and there's
not always a mobile signal anyway.
#Post#: 29177--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 8, 2024, 5:05 pm
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At what time did you start the process of purchasing the second
session?
Council photos:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZXzFDTl.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/8FTJdzF.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Vuu5FpY.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/K9lpk5w.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/IRotupa.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/QFtSy4M.jpeg
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) Traffic Order 2017
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kd9CegpvyC_QdvR-WnZTaXKAMaIyztYW/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 1) Traffic
Order 2018
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uWwGUMxH7SxQ-oVbqXBiCGJ7dkwHokGL/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 2) Traffic
Order 2019
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UeatqtIA6MastiXnVU688rkq9HAonrDt/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 3) Traffic
Order 2019
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OWTtKtc9oCrOgUC_vG1xh6CFL1W70pgp/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 4) Traffic
Order 2020
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vjgm3BpoXjvX48wocSVhhlEVY3RFWjgW/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 6) Traffic
Order 2020
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R_CMJgCc66uZl-LCQw5F7Lv-NbWUvaDj/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 6) Traffic
Order 2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IyE7npnsu-gSuuDbS7pSid94xSmD_Hkm/view
The Harrow (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No. 7) Traffic
Order 2023
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XYEdOXyUKSwpYldPy0S-2pTw4iL7U2ym/view
#Post#: 29182--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: Firestone
Date: July 8, 2024, 5:17 pm
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Well the start time of the 2nd session was at 11.32, so I reckon
I started the process at around 5 minutes before that, say
11:27AM. I had to input another car on the app, then go through
the rigmarole of choosing time, adding payment from saved bank
card & refreshing the screen - I had terrible trouble with the
screen hanging despite good data connection - it was stuck
'processing' on both sessions for ages.
#Post#: 29191--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 8, 2024, 5:48 pm
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I think your best bet is to make a plea for discretion,
explaining everything you've explained to us, and asking that
they cancel the penalty in light of the fact that you paid the
parking charge not once but twice.
Put a draft on here in the first instance and we'll tidy it up
for you.
#Post#: 29534--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: Firestone
Date: July 11, 2024, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> I think your best bet is to make a plea for discretion,
explaining everything you've explained to us, and asking that
they cancel the penalty in light of the fact that you paid the
parking charge not once but twice.
>
> Put a draft on here in the first instance and we'll tidy it up
for you.
>
--- End Quote ---
Dear Sir/Madam
I am sending in this appeal to ask you if you might kindly
cancel the PCN (No: HR75275897) as the contravention of being
‘parked without paying’ did not actually occur.
This was the first time that I had used the PayByPhone app,
however I did purchase a parking period which began at 11:11AM
for two hours. Regrettably I discovered some 15 minutes later,
that payment had been made on a slightly incorrect reg no -
LO65OWM. My phone is very small and of course the numbers 5 & 6
on the virtual keyboard are next to each other and it’s very
easy to hit the other key. Being unable to edit the entry, I
immediately began the process of purchasing another time period
on LO66OWM, but due to the process and the program ‘hanging'
whilst ‘processing’, the new time period didn’t become active
until 11:32AM for another two hours. I would therefore be most
grateful if you would cancel the PCN as the mis-entry on the
first time period was an honest mistake and I've now paid twice.
The appeal must be no more than 1000 words - this above is on
that limit!
Thank-you
#Post#: 29547--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 11, 2024, 3:19 pm
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Looks OK to me. Don't be disappointed if they reject, because
councils reject over 99% of informal reps, knowing that most
people then just cough up. It's called "gaming the system".
Post up their reply when you get it.
#Post#: 29555--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 11, 2024, 4:09 pm
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At 11.13 on ** the CEO saw my car and, quite correctly, started
observations because they could not find a matching VRM on their
payment system. They issued a PCN at 11.25.
I have proof, see enclosed, that once I discovered my error I
paid for a another session which commenced at 11.32.
Ordinarily the authority might think that this was a driver
buying parking time after finding a PCN, however, I would ask
you to consider my other evidence which shows that I originally
paid £** to park at 11.11 except that being all fingers and
thumbs I entered LO65OWM instead of LO66OWM. LO65OWM does not
exist, see copy of DVLA website enclosed. I would add that its
non-existence did not stop the council's PBP service provider
accepting the money which makes me wonder whether it would have
accepted payment for VRMs NCC-1701 or HOP2IT? **
In any event, a mistake on my part for which I apologise and one
which when I discovered it I started to rectify immediately and
which, on this occasion, I would ask the authority to forgive,
especially as a second payment was made. *
*- what an odd situation where the private parking industry,
which is often lambasted, only charges a token 'parking charge'
where minor keying errors are made and yet here it's all or
nothing.
**- you can google these!
Wait for others.
#Post#: 29712--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: Firestone
Date: July 12, 2024, 5:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> At 11.13 on ** the CEO saw my car and, quite correctly,
started observations because they could not find a matching VRM
on their payment system. They issued a PCN at 11.25.
>
> I have proof, see enclosed, that once I discovered my error I
paid for a another session which commenced at 11.32.
>
> Ordinarily the authority might think that this was a driver
buying parking time after finding a PCN, however, I would ask
you to consider my other evidence which shows that I originally
paid £** to park at 11.11 except that being all fingers and
thumbs I entered LO65OWM instead of LO66OWM. LO65OWM does not
exist, see copy of DVLA website enclosed. I would add that its
non-existence did not stop the council's PBP service provider
accepting the money which makes me wonder whether it would have
accepted payment for VRMs NCC-1701 or HOP2IT? **
>
> In any event, a mistake on my part for which I apologise and
one which when I discovered it I started to rectify immediately
and which, on this occasion, I would ask the authority to
forgive, especially as a second payment was made. *
>
>
> *- what an odd situation where the private parking industry,
which is often lambasted, only charges a token 'parking charge'
where minor keying errors are made and yet here it's all or
nothing.
>
> **- you can google these!
>
> Wait for others.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank-you H C Anderson for providing a draft of another great
potential response i could use - i can see that you took a lot
of time to do this. As a sci-fi fan I laughed when i read reg no
NCC-1701 ! They probably would have accepted payment. I know
that if I challenge them on this, they would probably say that
they have to accept foreign cars and they would not have access
to their countries DVLCs to cross check a car's existence before
accepting payments!
Due to only 1000 characters being allowed to informally appeal
at this stage, i am minded to use my draft, already aaproved by
Incandescant's (with rage), for the basic appeal now and use
your great script for the more formal appeal later on upon
receipt of the NTO after 28 days inviting either full payment of
the non-discounted rate or formal appeal. Chances are, as
indicated by Incandescant with rage, 99% of informal appeals are
automatically rejected.
So thank-you very much. At the moment there have been no more
suggestions from anyone else.
#Post#: 31404--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: Firestone
Date: July 27, 2024, 4:20 pm
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Just to let you all know that i won my appeal at the first.
informal stage. Unexpected! I used my sub 1000 word appeal, as
the number of characters were limited, with a view to using HC
Andersen's great draft at a potential later stage. What i can't
understand however, is the letter i received from the LBOH said
that i had entered a totally different registration number which
bore no resemblance to that of my car. I don't know where they
got that from? I was mistaken just over one numerical digit and
that my app history proves it!
Does this website have a 'templates' section with appropriate
filing for the various parking issues? If my draft worked, then
it might work for others and it might be worth filing it
somewhere. Also HCAndersen's great draft, although not used, is
very good would also be worth saving as no doubt he spent a lot
of time on that!
#Post#: 31408--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 27, 2024, 5:14 pm
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Very well done ! It is very rare we see councils give way on
receipt of informal reps. So may some small wiff of fairness and
probity is creeping into the Harrow parking bastion !
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