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#Post#: 28795--------------------------------------------------
Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Dconnerie
Date: July 6, 2024, 4:48 am
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Hi guys,
I’ve received a SJP for the following
- stop vehicle in pelican crossing controlled area
- fail to give information relating to ID of driver
Essentially the area in question (as shown on photos), is a
cut-out parking layby, full every day of the week, with no
hatching or anything like that. This was the first time in
years that I’d parked there, and I guess I got unlucky on this
particular occasion.
I didn’t know (as clearly do none of the other drivers everyday)
that despite this being a parking area, half of it is actually
illegal because of the road markings), but I know ignorance is
no defence.
On the failing to provide information, I received the letter
from the police which gave the offence with no explanation or
evidence, or even an offence code, so I had no idea what I was
meant to have done. I wrote back within the week, filling the
form and, as directed, using a second sheet with further
explanation. I explained that at the alleged time of the
offence, I was parked in a parking area, with other drivers, and
that at the specific time I wasn’t driving the car, and was
actually in a meeting with 2 colleagues. I sent this using a
first class stamp, to the address given. Unfortunately, and I
guess this may be my problem, I didn’t post with proof of
posting.
The only other thing to mention is that the date of the first
offence is listed as Jan 2024, with the date of the second
offence listed as March 2023. Clearly a typo, but in that case
I don’t know what to do.
Obviously had I had confirmation from the police of the alleged
offence, with evidence, I could have challenged at the time, or
agreed and taken the fine.
So, my questions are
1) despite the area being a parking lay-by, have I committed an
offence? (I will take this up with the council after to ask they
look at the problem)
2) I guess then I plead guilty to the first offence?
3) How should I pleased to the second offence, based on the
above (sending the information back, and the incorrect dates)?
4) Should I ask to go to court?
5) The criminal record really scares me - I’ve never had
anything like this before - but I think I’m right in saying that
if I am found guilty, the offence wouldn’t show on searches? An
added complication is that I have a global entry status with the
US, does anyone know if I’d have to declare this, or if it’s
searchable by them?
6) If guilty, what am I looking at, punishment wise?
Photo:
HTML https://ibb.co/x2Rk6Qf
Thank you so much in advance
#Post#: 28800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: AntonyMMM
Date: July 6, 2024, 5:57 am
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Please clarify .... was the SJP the first you heard of the
offence, or was there an earlier notice ( and s172 request to
name the driver) that you failed to respond to ?
And if you did receive an earlier request did you actually reply
naming the driver ?
#Post#: 28801--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Dconnerie
Date: July 6, 2024, 6:01 am
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I did explain this in the original post - I got a letter and a
form asking me to reply to confirm driver, which I did send back
#Post#: 28809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: 666
Date: July 6, 2024, 6:39 am
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--- Quote from: Dconnerie link ---
>
> I did explain this in the original post - I got a letter and a
form asking me to reply to confirm driver, which I did send back
>
--- End Quote ---
That "letter" would have been a Notice of Intended Prosecution,
which has to state the offence in question, i.e. "stop vehicle
in pelican crossing controlled area". But you say "I had no idea
what I was meant to have done". Is that right?
Anyway, it seems the police did not receive your reply, so now
you are facing two charges. To answer your questions:
1. It seems so.
2. NO. On no account plead G to that, at the moment they have no
evidence that you were the driver, and you may end up with 9
points in total.
3. The normal advice is to plead NOT guilty to both, with the
proviso (in the Mitigation section) that you would be willing to
plead guilty to the Pelican charge if the failure to ID is
dropped.
4. No. It is possible that the court may accept your offer. If
not, you will then be summonsed to a hearing, where you can make
the same offer to the prosecutor and it will almost certainly be
accepted.
5. You will not have a criminal record. I don't know exactly
what questions the US asks, but I doubt whether they'll care
about minor motoring offences.
6. You can explain to the court that you did reply to the NIP,
but it must have been lost in the post, and ask (politely) to be
sentenced at the fixed penalty level (£100 plus 3 points). They
may agree, otherwise it's an income-related fine, plus surcharge
and c£60 costs, and the same 3 points.
#Post#: 28812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Dconnerie
Date: July 6, 2024, 6:52 am
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Thanks, and sorry, I see what you mean. The letter I got in the
mail originally was a NIP. It did say ‘stop vehicle in pelican
crossing’ but I didn’t know what that meant, and there was no
information (as I wasn’t driving the car - it was in a parking
space - I thought maybe a fixed camera was pointing the wrong
way).
So to summarise what you’ve said,
- plead not guilty to both, - suggesting that im willing to
accept the first charge if the second is dropped
- request that the penalty be looked at in line with the
original NIP on the basis I did respond and they didn’t receive
it
Is that right? And what do I say when they ask if I was the
driver (as you mentioned they can’t prove it was me)?
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the help, thank you
#Post#: 28813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Gilan02
Date: July 6, 2024, 7:07 am
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Did you identify the driver?
#Post#: 28814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Dconnerie
Date: July 6, 2024, 7:10 am
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I did reply to the NIP saying I owned the car but wasn’t in it
(it was parked) but they say they didn’t receive that
#Post#: 28815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 6, 2024, 7:14 am
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--- Quote ---
> And what do I say when they ask if I was the driver (as you
mentioned they can’t prove it was me)?
--- End Quote ---
They will have no need to ask you. By pleading guilty to the
underlying offence (parking in the pelican area) there is no
need for them to provide any evidence to the court.
You may need to attend court to do this "plea deal". Before the
pandemic it was invariably necessary to go to court to do it as
it requires the agreement of the prosecutor. During the pandemic
courts were keen to see as few people attending in person as
possible so they made arrangements for it to be done by post or
e-mail. Many courts have continued with this process but in some
areas the courts have reverted to the earlier process which
requires attendance.
#Post#: 28816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 6, 2024, 7:16 am
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Presumably there is a witness statement from the CTO concerning
the service of notices. What exactly does it say regarding the
s. 172 response?
#Post#: 28817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Advice on SJP relating to pelican area
DIR By: Dconnerie
Date: July 6, 2024, 7:22 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]And what do I say when they ask if I was the driver (as
you mentioned they can’t prove it was me)?
--- End Quote ---
They will have no need to ask you. By pleading guilty to the
underlying offence (parking in the pelican area) there is no
need for them to provide any evidence to the court.
You may need to attend court to do this "plea deal". Before the
pandemic it was invariably necessary to go to court to do it as
it requires the agreement of the prosecutor. During the pandemic
courts were keen to see as few people attending in person as
possible so they made arrangements for it to be done by post or
e-mail. Many courts have continued with this process but in some
areas the courts have reverted to the earlier process which
requires attendance.
[/quote]
I might have misunderstood but someone above said to plead not
guilty to both?
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