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#Post#: 29230--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: July 9, 2024, 6:47 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> I think that having 2 PCNs for the same set of facts is rather
lost in the reps.
>
> I drove into London;
> I wasn't aware;
> I didn't see;
> On *** I received a PCN for *** (date) which I promptly paid;
> On *** I then received this PCN effectively for driving out of
contravention.
> I now understand that the restriction applies per day, but
would suggest that the levying of two penalties based upon the
same error is a little disproportionate and would therefore ask
the authority to exercise discretion on this occasion..
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your input, I've reworded the appeal to make it a bit
more apparently and cohorent.
Fingers crossed!
#Post#: 31713--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: July 31, 2024, 7:34 am
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We received a response today through the post, date marked 23rd
July which leaves us a less than a week to respond.
Seems like an almost generic response asking for vehicle
registration details and makes no mention of our previous appeal
and situation. There's no mention of how we can submit the
paperwork electronically, which means we'd have to photocopy the
paperwork and then physically send to a PO Box address.
Worth getting Royal Mail signed for delivery just to get the
proof of delivery?
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/48iEeWn[/img]
Response Letter
HTML https://imgur.com/a/48iEeWn
#Post#: 31722--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 31, 2024, 9:28 am
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Thanks for your input, I've reworded the appeal to make it a bit
more apparently and cohorent.
You didn't post this, but their response suggests that they
haven't got the gist of you sent me 2 PCNs, I paid one and am
making reps in respect of the 2nd for the reasons I've set out
below......
#Post#: 31724--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: July 31, 2024, 9:38 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> Thanks for your input, I've reworded the appeal to make it a
bit more apparently and cohorent.
>
> You didn't post this, but their response suggests that they
haven't got the gist of you sent me 2 PCNs, I paid one and am
making reps in respect of the 2nd for the reasons I've set out
below......
>
--- End Quote ---
No, the appeal is more than clear that she was penalised twice,
it literally starts off with: "I am writing to formally appeal
against my second ULEZ charge levied against my vehicle on the
23rd June 2024"..."I received a second PCN for driving out of
the ULEZ zone on my return back to Liverpool.", etc.
They just ignored those points.
#Post#: 31725--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 31, 2024, 9:45 am
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TFL seem to think that there is a possibility that your car has
had a change of registration. There's a known issue with the
DVLA and the ULEZ databases in cases of a change of VRM, whereby
a vehicle's emissions status and or data doesn't necessarily
transfer to the new registration for several months. And
sometimes never. Affects private plates, new VRMs from the DVLA
due to cloning and vehicles imported from abroad. TFL manually
updates their database in such cases.
Your car has a Northern Ireland VRM. Does any of those scenarios
apply here? EG is it a private plate as opposed to the original
VRM?
Did you say anything in your formal representation to suggest
there has been change of VRM? Or that the car is actually ULEZ
compliant? The copy of the reps you posted above on July 8th
suggest you didn't?
Your car is a diesel. A diesel car doesn't actually have to be
fully Euro-6 compliant to be exempt. It just has to meet the
Euro-6 NOx standard and PM (Particulate Matter) standards.
Hence they want to check the V5c logbook. And the certificate of
conformance if there is no emissions data.
Incidentally "Nitrates of Oxide". Long time since my school
chemistry, is there even such a thing? I believe they meant to
say Oxides of Nitrogen.
#Post#: 31729--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: July 31, 2024, 10:09 am
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--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> TFL seem to think that there is a possibility that your car
has had a change of registration. There's a known issue with the
DVLA and the ULEZ databases in cases of a change of VRM, whereby
a vehicle's emissions status and or data doesn't necessarily
transfer to the new registration for several months. And
sometimes never. Affects private plates, new VRMs from the DVLA
due to cloning and vehicles imported from abroad. TFL manually
updates their database in such cases.
>
> Your car has a Northern Ireland VRM. Does any of those
scenarios apply here? EG is it a private plate as opposed to the
original VRM?
>
> Did you say anything in your formal representation to suggest
there has been change of VRM? Or that the car is actually ULEZ
compliant? The copy of the reps you posted above on July 8th
suggest you didn't?
>
> Your car is a diesel. A diesel car doesn't actually have to be
fully Euro-6 compliant to be exempt. It just has to meet the
Euro-6 NOx standard and PM (Particulate Matter) standards.
>
> Hence they want to check the V5c logbook. And the certificate
of conformance if there is no emissions data.
>
> Incidentally "Nitrates of Oxide". Long time since my school
chemistry, is there even such a thing? I believe they meant to
say Oxides of Nitrogen.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm checking with my sister, but I'm pretty sure the VRM is the
original number. The vehicle model does match when we check
against TFL's website so just assumed the penalty is completely
legitimate. I'll get her to send me the documents to respond
either way - turns out I can upload to the original appeal on
their website, so no need to post to their physical address! :)
#Post#: 31758--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: slapdash
Date: July 31, 2024, 1:27 pm
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That's a 2013 petrol Hyundai I30 according to the MOT checker.
If so it must be Euro 4 (since 2005) which is what it needs for
compliance.
I reckon that's compliant if the vehicle type is as per DVLA.
#Post#: 31761--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 31, 2024, 1:38 pm
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--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> That's a 2013 petrol Hyundai I30 according to the MOT checker.
>
> If so it must be Euro 4 (since 2005) which is what it needs
for compliance.
>
> I reckon that's compliant if the vehicle type is as per DVLA.
>
--- End Quote ---
No it's not. It's a an I30 Active Blue Drive CRD. That's a 1.6
diesel.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Update.
Actually the MOT checker says it's petrol and the VED checker
says it's diesel. So my apologies to slapdash. Something is
amiss.
@Charsiu
Please check if the I30 is petrol or diesel?
#Post#: 31805--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: August 1, 2024, 3:53 am
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It's definitely a diesel, here's the emission part of the V5:
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/2oiVlsh[/img]
V5 Emissions Here - Got problems embedding images
HTML https://imgur.com/2oiVlsh
Based on the age, I'm guessing it's likely to be non-compliant.
#Post#: 31813--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for ULEZ - Family Visit - Romford/Essex.
DIR By: slapdash
Date: August 1, 2024, 4:42 am
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V3 NOx 0.142 = Not compliant. The limit is 0.08g/km.
Odd that the MoT checker said it was petrol though.
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