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#Post#: 28496--------------------------------------------------
Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: July 3, 2024, 12:09 pm
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Hi all. Some advice would be appreciated.
The driver returned to their vehicle to find a PCN attached to
the windscreen. There's a twist. The PCN is missing the first 1"
of printing all the way down due to a misaligned printing
machine. The Make, Time observed, Reg No, PCN No, and date by
which the discounted rate can be claimed are all missing or cut
off. So has the driver really recived a PCN (as per POFA) or
just some random piece of paper ?
Should this be appealed as the keeper on Day 25 or do you
suggest a different course of action ?
And what should the appeal be ? The White Tesla is parked
exactly where the driver was parked on the previous day when the
ticket was issued.
Many thanks
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/WFdS4mvY/ECP.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/WFdS4mvY
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/MMg5fcZ6/Tesla-in-space.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/MMg5fcZ6
#Post#: 28539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: b789
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:39 pm
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For a EURO CAR PARKS (ECP) Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on
private land to be valid, it needs to comply with specific
requirements set out by the British Parking Association (BPA) in
their Code of Practice (CoP). If a Notice to Driver (NtD) has
crucial details misprinted or missing, such as dates or other
essential information, this affects the validity of the PCN.
Key points to consider include:
1. Accuracy of Information: The NtD must include specific
information, such as the date and time of the alleged
contravention, the reason for the charge, and the amount due. If
these details are cut off or misprinted, it renders the PCN
invalid because it does not provide the necessary information
for the unknown driver to understand and respond to the charge.
2. Code of Practice Compliance: ECP must adhere to the CoP set
by the BPA. This code requires that NtDs contain clear and
correct information. Non-compliance with the code is grounds for
the PCN to be cancelled.
3. Right to Appeal: As the recipient of a misprinted or
incomplete NtD you should appeal the PCN as the known keeper. Do
not identify the unknown driver. In the appeal, you should cite
the inaccuracies or missing information as part of your grounds
for challenging the validity of the PCN.
4. Keeper Liability: Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
(PoFA), for an unregulated private parking company (PPC) such as
ECP to hold the vehicle keeper liable, they must follow strict
guidelines, including correctly issuing the NtD and any
subsequent Notice to Keeper (NtK). Any errors in the NtD impact
the PPCs ability to enforce the charge against the known keeper.
As you have received a PCN with misprinted or missing
information, you should note the following:
Strategic timing is crucial when dealing with PCNs issued as
NtDs on private land in England. Here’s a detailed explanation
of the approach which involves delaying the appeal:
1. Understand PoFA: The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
sets out the rules for holding the (known) registered keeper of
a vehicle liable for parking charges incurred by the unknown
driver. For the ECP to rely on PoFA, they must follow specific
procedures and timeframes.
2. NtD and NtK Timeframes: When a Notice to Driver (NtD) is
issued, ECP must wait at least 28 days before sending an NtK.
However, the NtK must be sent within 56 days of the alleged
contravention.
3. Strategic Delay in Appealing: By waiting to appeal the NtD
(only as the keeper) until close to the 28-day mark (around day
26), you can potentially exploit a timing gap:
- Delayed Process: ECP might not process and respond to your
appeal before the 28-day window closes.
- NtK Issuance Delay: If ECP does not issue the NtK within the
required timeframe (56 days) or not at all, they lose the right
to hold the known keeper instead of the unknown driver liable
under PoFA.
4. Challenging the NtD: As the NtD has misprinted or missing
crucial information, this will form the basis of your appeal.
Ensure you document these issues clearly in your appeal.
5. Potential Outcomes:
- Appeal Accepted: If the appeal is accepted, the PCN is
cancelled.
- Appeal Rejected: If the appeal is rejected and ECP has not
yet sent the NtK, they may miss the PoFA deadlines, preventing
them from holding the known keeper liable.
6. Follow-Up: If ECP fails to send the NtK within 56 days, they
cannot use PoFA to enforce the charge against the known keeper.
You can then respond to any further correspondence by
highlighting their non-compliance with PoFA.
Steps to Take:
1. Photograph and Document: Take clear photographs of the NtD
showing the misprinted or missing information. DONE
2. Prepare Appeal: Draft your appeal, focusing on the errors in
the NtD and your understanding of the timing strategy. **Show us
before you send anything.
3. Submit Appeal: Submit the appeal around day 26 after the NtD
was issued.
4. Monitor for NtK: Keep an eye out for any NtK being issued. If
the PPC misses the 56-day deadline, they cannot hold the known
keeper liable.
Considerations:
- Parking Company Practices: Some parking companies may be more
diligent in adhering to PoFA timelines, so this strategy may not
always succeed.
By following this strategic approach, you increase the
likelihood of avoiding keeper liability under PoFA, especially
when the NtD itself is flawed.
For clarification, only the unknown driver is liable for any
debt for an alleged breach of contract with the PPC. The PPC
does not know the identity of the unknown driver unless the
known keeper divulges it, unintentionally or otherwise. There is
no legal obligation for the known keeper to identify the unknown
driver.
#Post#: 28821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: July 6, 2024, 8:12 am
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Getting my appeal ready ahead of the deadline. Please feedback.
One point to note is that the ECP website makes it impossible to
appeal online without a PCN Number which of course I don't have,
so I am going to be forced to send this by mail, 1st class,
proof of posting.
Re PCN number: UNKNOWN
I am the keeper of vehicle <REGISTRATION NUMBER> and my address
is <ADDRESS>
On the 2nd July a ‘ING CHARGE NOTICE’ was placed on the vehicle
in Sainsbury’s Merton and has since been handed to me.
I am appealing as the KEEPER of the vehicle.
The piece of paper handed to me purports to be a parking charge
notice except that due to misalignment of the printing machine,
all of the relevant information has been curtailed.
Under Paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
Act 2012, certain information MUST be present for a Notice to
Driver to be valid and this information is missing from this
‘ING CHARGE NOTICE’ namely but not limited to:
-the vehicle;
-the relevant land;
the parking period;
-the parking charge;
-dates by which a ‘discount’ may be obtained;
Your ‘ING CHARGE NOTICE’ therefore cannot be relied upon as a
valid Notice to Driver under paragraph 7(1)(a) of Schedule 4 of
the Protection of Freedoms Act.
As such, you have also failed in this instance to abide by the
BPA Code of Practice paragraphs 21.6 and 21.7. In addition, your
website does not provide an opportunity to appeal without a ‘PCN
Number’ which I am unable to provide in this instance and so you
have failed to comply with section 23 of the same BPA Code. A
complaint to the BPA will be made forthwith.
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no
assumptions can be drawn.
I expect to receive confirmation that this ‘ING PARKING CHARGE’
has been withdrawn.
#Post#: 28843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: b789
Date: July 6, 2024, 11:28 am
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You don't have to send by post. You can use their "contact us"
portal here:
HTML https://www.eurocarparks.com/enquiry/
and you can
upload your complaint as a PDF file. Just add the message that
they should treat the message as both a complaint and an appeal.
Do not file the appeal/complaint until day 26 after it was
received. Just covering all the options in case they are too
stupid to cancel it immediately and they fail to send an NtK by
day 56.
You could as whether it is a "Park" or a "Feck" ing charge
notice. ;)
#Post#: 29092--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: July 8, 2024, 7:30 am
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Thanks for your help !
Was toying with ****ing charge notice !
Day 26 in the diary..... Will let you know how I get on.
#Post#: 31528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: July 29, 2024, 7:08 am
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So I submitted the appeal as keeper as described above on Day
26. They came back almost immediately with the following :
VRM – xxxxxx
PCN – xxxxxxxxxxx
Please be advised that it is the registered keeper’s
responsibility to inform of the full name and UK serviceable
address of who was driving the vehicle within 28 days beginning
with the day after the notice was given. If the full amount
remains unpaid, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
Act 2012 (‘the Act’), Euro Car Parks have the right subject of
the Act to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it
was parked so much of that amount which remains unpaid.
If you wish to appeal, please complete the online appeals form
at
HTML https://appeals.eurocarparks.com/Appeals/Default.aspx
and
ensure you upload any supporting documents.
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Putting aside the complete **** which is the first sentence (and
the fact that I appealed/complained as keeper), I guess I now
just sit here for another 28 days and see if an NtK arrives ?
#Post#: 31549--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: b789
Date: July 29, 2024, 9:15 am
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I wouldn’t worry about it. They cannot hold the keeper liable as
their NtD did not comply with PoFA. Their NtD also failed to
comply with the BPA CoP.
Wait until they send an appeal rejection with a POPLA code and
show POPLA how they have failed to do play with both PoFA and
the CoP.
In fact, simply respond to that email with:
--- Quote ---
> As the keeper of vehicle [VRM] in response to your “ING CHARGE
NOTICE”, I decline to identify the driver. As your “ING CHARGE
NOTICE” does not comply with the requirements of PoFA, you are
unable to hold me liable as the keeper.
>
> Either cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA code where an assessor
can review your PoFA and your BPA Code of Practice failings.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 31613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: July 30, 2024, 7:13 am
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The stupidity of these people...... came straight back with the
same response.
#Post#: 33347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: Sarf London
Date: August 14, 2024, 7:48 am
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SO no real appeal or complaint response, just the boilerplate I
described above, and no POPLA code either.
Instead I have just received an NtK which I assume I appeal on
Day 26 as keeper.....
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/YGdmjxsX/NTK-Back.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/YGdmjxsX
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/47f9J0B7/NTK-Front.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/47f9J0B7
#Post#: 33351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Winscreen ticket - Sainsburys Merton, with a twist
DIR By: b789
Date: August 14, 2024, 8:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There's no point in delaying the appeal to the NtK. It has been
issued within the required timeline. However, there is a notable
failure in the wording of the NtK that renders it non-compliant
with PoFA. Here is a précis of why it is not compliant:
--- Quote ---
> Schedule 4, Paragraph 8(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012
>
> This paragraph mandates that for a parking operator to hold
the vehicle's registered keeper liable for a parking charge, the
Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include:
>
> An "Invitation to Pay": The notice must explicitly invite the
keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.
>
> Exact Wording: The wording must clearly convey this invitation
and mere implication or indirect suggestions are insufficient.
The act requires strict compliance, meaning that any failure to
fully incorporate this invitation renders the notice
non-compliant with the requirements of PoFA 2012.
>
> Non-Compliance Issue
>
> If the NtK fails to include a clear "invitation to pay", or
any synonym of the word "invitation", this omission is a breach
of Schedule 4, Paragraph 8(2)(e)(i). Even if the notice suggests
that payment is required, without an explicit invitation
directed towards the keeper to settle the charge, the notice
does not meet the exacting requirements of PoFA 2012.
>
> Significance of Full Compliance
>
> Strict Liability: The law mandates full and exact compliance
with the specified wording and content outlined in PoFA 2012.
>
> Partial or Substantial Compliance Insufficient: Even if the
notice largely complies with other requirements, the absence of
a clear invitation to the keeper to pay is a significant flaw.
The operator cannot rely on partial or even substantial
compliance — every element as specified in the legislation must
be present and correct.
>
> Consequences for the Operator
>
> Challenge Basis: If the notice is found to lack this crucial
element, it can be used as a basis to challenge the parking
charge.
>
> Keeper Liability: The operator cannot transfer liability to
the keeper, which significantly weaken their case if the notice
to the driver or other requirements are also flawed or if the
driver is unknown.
>
> Conclusion
>
> In summary, a PCN that does not include an explicit
"invitation" for the keeper to pay the charge is not fully
compliant with Schedule 4, Paragraph 8(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012.
Since the law demands strict adherence, any omission, even if
minor, invalidates the notice and relieves the keeper of any
obligation to pay. This should be raised in any appeal or legal
response to the charge.
--- End Quote ---
ECP will reject any appeal but they then have to provide a POPLA
code. So, the initial appeal to ECP only needs to be short and
to the point:
--- Quote ---
> I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be
making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client
landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no "invitation", or any
synonym of the word, for the keeper to pay the charge as per
paragraph 8(2)(e)(i), you are unable to hold the keeper of the
vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial
compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to
who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn.
>
> Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation
of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close
up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location
on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
>
> I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
--- End Quote ---
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