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#Post#: 28417--------------------------------------------------
Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of stay -
Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all, we'd be grateful for any assistance with the below -
Driver paid online for parking at the London Excel Centre, and
received confirmation emails and invoice PDF from
bookings@aeroparker.com for parking on the 25.05.2024, from
10:30 until 21:00 -
HTML https://i.imgur.com/HkcFEG1.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ce6FkwK.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/VnfLaW8.png
When the driver arrived at the venue (later than expected due to
multiple delays)- members of staff in hi-vis vests from Excel
where directing traffic due to the roadworks mentioned in the
email. Driver was asked if they had pre-paid for parking, to
which they replied 'yes', and where directed to one of the
roundabout exits and told that another staff member would direct
them where to park. Driver then queued with other cars waiting
to park, and was directed to a spot by another staff member in
hi-vis. Driver had the email ready to show but was not asked to
produce it.
After the event, driver returned to their car and left before
the booked time had expired.
On 25.06.24, they received a PCN letter from Horizon parking,
noting that the PCN company was different from the booking
company -
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hS2JQJz.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/8W0jl4H.jpg
They immediately went to the website stated and submitted an
appeal using the form on the website as they believed this was a
simple mistake and the evidence that they had paid for that time
slot was straight forward, attaching the confirmation emails and
invoice PDF.
On 01.07.24 they received an email stating that their appeal was
not successful -
HTML https://i.imgur.com/2Krq1Ap.png
They are now assuming that they will need to appeal again
through POPLA, please can you advise how they should proceed?
#Post#: 28419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Fixed links
#Post#: 28456--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: Boomer
Date: July 3, 2024, 7:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP,
the PCN number and car registration are still visible on both
the front and back of the PCN.
Look at the "How to pay" sections with a black background (2
of).
I think that they sneakily do this on purpose, as quite a few
people miss it (i almost did on my now cancelled Horizon PCN)!
#Post#: 28472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: July 3, 2024, 10:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please tell us that you only appealed as the keeper and didn't
reveal the drivers identity, inadvertently or otherwise, in your
appeal?
Had you used the following as your appeal, it would have been
cancelled:
--- Quote ---
> This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details
will be given. Please do NOT try the trick of asking for driver
details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not comply
with PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability
cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an
automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a
POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.
--- End Quote ---
Only the (hopefully) unknown driver is liable for the PCN. The
unknown driver and the known keeper are separate entities in
civil law and there is no legal obligation for the known keeper
to identify the unknown driver. The only way that the known
keeper can be liable for the PCN is if Horizon issued an NtK
that complies fully with the requirements of PoFA.
Horizon have not issued an NtK that complies with the
requirements of PoFA and as long as the driver remains unknown,
they have nowhere to run with this. So, is the driver still
unknown?
If you have revealed the identity of the keeper to have also
been the driver then you have made things so much more difficult
for yourself.
So, you need to start preparing your POPLA appeal. The POPLA
code is actually valid for 33 days, not the 28 stated on the
appeal rejection letter.
Please show us what you intend to put in your POPLA appeal
before you send anything. POPLA will only consider relevant law
and the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) to determine whether the PCN
was issued correctly. Mitigation is not considered at all.
You should start to swat up on PoFA
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted,<br
/>BPA CoP
HTML https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf<br
/>and the CRA 2015
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents.
#Post#: 28502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 3, 2024, 12:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Boomer link ---
>
> OP,
>
> the PCN number and car registration are still visible on both
the front and back of the PCN.
>
> Look at the "How to pay" sections with a black background (2
of).
>
> I think that they sneakily do this on purpose, as quite a few
people miss it (i almost did on my now cancelled Horizon PCN)!
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks, totally missed that! :-\
#Post#: 28504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 3, 2024, 12:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Please tell us that you only appealed as the keeper and didn't
reveal the drivers identity, inadvertently or otherwise, in your
appeal?
>
> Had you used the following as your appeal, it would have been
cancelled:
>
> [quote]This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver
details will be given. Please do NOT try the trick of asking for
driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not
comply with PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore,
liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is
an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a
POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.
--- End Quote ---
Only the (hopefully) unknown driver is liable for the PCN. The
unknown driver and the known keeper are separate entities in
civil law and there is no legal obligation for the known keeper
to identify the unknown driver. The only way that the known
keeper can be liable for the PCN is if Horizon issued an NtK
that complies fully with the requirements of PoFA.
Horizon have not issued an NtK that complies with the
requirements of PoFA and as long as the driver remains unknown,
they have nowhere to run with this. So, is the driver still
unknown?
If you have revealed the identity of the keeper to have also
been the driver then you have made things so much more difficult
for yourself.
So, you need to start preparing your POPLA appeal. The POPLA
code is actually valid for 33 days, not the 28 stated on the
appeal rejection letter.
Please show us what you intend to put in your POPLA appeal
before you send anything. POPLA will only consider relevant law
and the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) to determine whether the PCN
was issued correctly. Mitigation is not considered at all.
You should start to swat up on PoFA
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted,<br
/>BPA CoP
HTML https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf<br
/>and the CRA 2015
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents.
[/quote]
Thank you for your detailed reply.
I believe they filled out the appeals web form as per the
screenshot below, with 'I am' as 'DVLA keeper' and 'Appeal
reason' as 'I paid for parking'-
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wsmABa9.png
As for the POPLA appeal, they were just going to resubmit the
evidence that they had pre-paid for the allotted time slot as it
seems as though that evidence was not accepted/looked at by
Horizon Parking. They do not have any previous experience with
the appeals process.
Thanks again for your input.
#Post#: 28507--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: July 3, 2024, 12:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A POPLA appeal has to cover as many points as possible. The
operator must respond and rebut each and every point. The
appellant only has to win on a single point.
As long as the selection "I paid for parking" is not construed
as admittance of being the driver, this should be won at POPLA.
The burden of proof lies with the operator to show that the
person they are pursuing was the driver. If the driver has not
been identified then the the keeper cannot be liable for the PCN
because the NtK is not compliant with PoFA.
The POPLA appeal should list all the points that are being
relied on and then each point should be expanded and explained
as to why the keeper (or driver) is not liable.
For example, the first points in the POPLA appeal should be:
(1) Failure to adhere to the requirements of Schedule 4 of the
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
(2) The operator has not shown that the individual who it is
pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially
liable for the charge
Other points should include, but not limited to:
(3) Inadequate signage leading to failure to adhere to PoFA 2012
and breach of the BPA Code of Practice
(4) No evidence of landholder authority
(5) Failure to comply with the BPA CoP General Principles for
ANPR
#Post#: 28509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 3, 2024, 1:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> As long as the selection "I paid for parking" is not construed
as admittance of being the driver, this should be won at POPLA
--- End Quote ---
Possibly, but do we know what the text of the appeal was? That
may have been more explicit.
#Post#: 28704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 5, 2024, 3:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote]As long as the selection "I paid for parking" is not
construed as admittance of being the driver, this should be won
at POPLA
--- End Quote ---
Possibly, but do we know what the text of the appeal was? That
may have been more explicit.
[/quote]
The text of the appeal was the invoice number and parking
booking reference only.
#Post#: 28706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Horizon Parking PCN - Failure to pay for full duration of
stay - Excel Centre Overflow Car Park
DIR By: PigJouster
Date: July 5, 2024, 3:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
Thank you all for your help so far.
The driver has just received the email copied below from
Horizon. It seems they either only investigated the booking
reference after rejecting the appeal, or someone with a better
grasp of the law made them look into it.
Does the driver need to consider anything else at this point, or
is this the end of the matter?
Either way, you are all amazing for the help you provide. Thanks
again.
--- Quote ---
>
>
> Dear Appellant,
>
>
> Parking Charge Notice: xxxxxxxx
>
> Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above
Parking Charge Notice.
>
> Thank you for contacting us and bringing this to our
attention.
>
> We have investigated this further and can see that you did
make payment to park. Unfortunately, due to the high volume of
vehicles in the car park that day, the client informed customers
to use the overflow car park but did not inform us of this.
>
> Please accept our since apologies for this . I can confirm the
Parking Charge has now been cancelled in full and no further
action is required.
>
> I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice has now been cancelled
and no further action will be taken in this matter.
>
> Please note that once the Parking Charge Notice is cancelled
the contact details are removed from the Parking Charge Notice
and will not be retained for any purpose or shared with third
parties. We are, however, required to retain images and appeal
correspondence for a period of 2 years by DVLA and the BPA and
are not therefore able to delete these from our system. You can
review our privacy policy at
HTML https://horizonparking.co.uk/privacy-policy/
or you can request
that a copy is sent to you in the post by contacting us at the
address below, if you have any queries regarding your data.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Appeals Department
>
> Horizon Parking Ltd
>
>
--- End Quote ---
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