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#Post#: 1733--------------------------------------------------
LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: RootieTootie
Date: July 21, 2023, 6:30 pm
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Hi there,
A PCN was issued in a make-shift looking car-park that turns out
was permit only.
All info in dropbox here:
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/q6ogriloo1iipjndggj95/h?rlkey=p2wibd4lfstqxfz9cq574djdf&dl=0
The driver appealed and lost the appeal and is now prepared to
pay the fine to save more expended energy on fighting CPM who
seem to reject all appeals regardless. But there seems to be
errors in this appeals email (pasted below).
Firstly, the payment due date seems to be incorrect. When logged
onto the online payment it said the payment was 4 days overdue -
so perhaps it was supposed to read 18th July 2023? However, the
email below states that the driver has to pay "within 28 days of
the date of this correspondence".
Secondly, the amount due seems also to be incorrect. The
rejection email states "If you appeal this charge further then
you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate." The
reduced rate is £60, not £100 as stated.
An email has been sent via their complaints email address as
there doesn't seem to be any other way to get through to this
company as everything is automated.
Any advice would be gratefully received on whether the
assessment of the appeal rejection is correct and how else CPM
can be contacted regarding paying the £60 reduced fee.
Many thanks in advance.
The following appeal rejection was received on 4.7.23:
PCN REFERENCE NUMBER:
DATE OF PARKING EVENT: 6th May 2023
PAYMENT DUE DATE: 18th May 2023
TOTAL AMOUNT DUE: £100.00
Dear
Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge
Notice.
At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We
take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any
evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your
circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone
would like to find themselves in; however, these parking
conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all
motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful
consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today
to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been
unsuccessful.
The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made
on the following basis.
Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, as per our
photographic evidence, the vehicle was parked in contravention
of the advertised terms and conditions. This location is for
authorised vehicles only whilst they remain on site. Therefore,
we can confirm that this Parking Charge has been issued
correctly.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure
and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to
the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.
To make payment of the total amount due as shown above, please
use one of the following payment options;
Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
Telephone: 0345 463 4040 (24hr)
Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR
Alternatively, if you do not agree with your internal appeal
outcome and you wish to dispute the matter further, as you have
complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we
will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you
lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.
The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an
Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type.
If you decide to appeal to the IAS, you will need to visit their
website and use your PCN reference and corresponding vehicle
registration. All PCN's will be uploaded to the IAS website by
the end of this working day.
If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability
to pay at the reduced rate. In the event that your IAS appeal is
unsuccessful, the full amount for the PCN will then be payable.
If you lodge an appeal with the IAS and then subsequently pay
the charge prior to that appeal being determined, then the
appeal will be withdrawn, and you will not be given a further
opportunity to contest the charge.
If you do not wish to dispute the matter further and payment is
not received within 28 days of the date of this correspondence
then additional charges may be incurred, for which you may be
liable. If the charge continues to remain outstanding, the
matter may be later referred for litigation in the County Court
which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against
you; this may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the
future.
#Post#: 1812--------------------------------------------------
Re: LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 23, 2023, 5:12 pm
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In order to establish whether or not you ought to have been
entitled to pay the discounted rate once your appeal was
rejected, we'll need to clarify some dates:
- The date of the Parking Charge was issued: 11th May 2023
- The date of your appeal: _____
#Post#: 1918--------------------------------------------------
Re: LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: RootieTootie
Date: July 25, 2023, 6:01 am
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Hi there!
This was received yesterday, 24th July, (which answers DWMB2's
information request) following an email to the complaints email
address (complaints@uk-cpm.com):
"Dear .....
We have reviewed the further evidence you have submitted since
your first appeal and must advise that our decision to reject
your appeal is unchanged. Whilst we note your comments, the
reduced amount of £60.00 was payable within 14 days from the
date the Notice to Keeper was issued to you, 11th May 2023. When
we received your appeal on 2nd June 2023, the period to pay the
reduced amount had expired and the full amount of £100.00 was
payable, therefore, upon rejecting your appeal on 4th July 2023,
the correct amount was detailed. We note an admin error has
occurred by detailing the incorrect payment due date, please
accept our apologies for this. On this occasion, as a gesture of
goodwill the full amount of £60.00 is due by 7th August 2023.
The information about the 28 days advises the PCN will be passed
to our Debt Recovery agents after this period. You have now
reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. Please be
advised that any further correspondence received from you, will
not be responded to."
This a better response than expected, but I am keen to still try
to identify the landowner and appeal to him directly before 7th
August, although, I am struggling to find out who the landowner
is.
There's a map and photo of the place the PCN was issued in the
dropbox folder - the address being: St Peter's Buildings (I
believe at LS9 8AH). The businesses surrounding the land have
been contacted to no avail. Land registry have been contacted
and sent over the process to find the landowner – You can pay £3
if you know the title number, but to find the title number you
have to apply via a SIM form and that seems very convoluted and
SIMs require "a plan to show the land that you are interested
in, but it must: be drawn to scale, be based on the current
large scale Ordnance Survey map, indicate scale and north point
and show property extent with suitable colouring and position in
relation to nearby roads and other features." As mentioned the
dropbox has a plan of the area but to make this to scale is
beyond my capabilities. There seems to be a potential free
MapSearch option, but you may have to have a registered
business to access that.
Any thoughts/advice on identifying the title number and tracking
down the landowner welcome.
#Post#: 1960--------------------------------------------------
Re: LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 25, 2023, 6:26 pm
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You don't need the title number - if you use the map or address
search then you can simply select the appropriate entry,
providing you can identify which one relates to where the
vehicle was parked (which isn't always easy).
Here are some tips from Umkomaas on the MoneySavingExpert forum
on finding the landowner:
--- Quote ---
> 1. Google searches
> 2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the
on-site outlets
> 3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent
> 4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent
> 5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the
non-domestic/business rate for the car park
> 6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know.
They often have a website which might provide the information
> 7. Contact The Land Registry and for £3 they will provide
definitive detail
--- End Quote ---
Although before you spend any money on Land Registry fees, on
what basis are you going to ask the landowner to intervene?
There's a good chance that the reason the owner hired CPM in the
first place was to stop members of the public using their
private property as a free car park, in exactly the way that
seems to have been done here.
#Post#: 1991--------------------------------------------------
Re: LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: guest179
Date: July 26, 2023, 1:35 pm
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Exactly.
Why should the landowner undermine their operator's position?
What benefit did the driver bring to the landowner and therefore
the negotiating table?
The driver appealed and lost the appeal and is now prepared to
pay the fine to save more expended energy on fighting CPM who
seem to reject all appeals regardless.
So, who is expending the energy in this case?
The niceties of the Traffic Management Act's 'procedural
improprieties' (the council procedure) don't apply here. The
discount has been re-offered until 7 August and trying to
identify the landowner won't stop the clock.
The PCN seems to comply with PoFA therefore the keeper could be
held liable.
#Post#: 2704--------------------------------------------------
Re: LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
DIR By: RootieTootie
Date: August 6, 2023, 6:42 am
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The driver has paid the £60 reduced fine.
It was felt it was not worth expending the energy.
Thanks for all your advice and knowledge, it's very much
appreciated.
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