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#Post#: 28025--------------------------------------------------
Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal - NTO
sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southwark
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: June 30, 2024, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear all,
Apologies for the large post, but I am in a desperate situation
and requesting support.
Any support would be appreciated as I am now without a job and
struggling to make ends meet. All PCNs involve the Southwark
Council.
Please let me know if any additional information is required.I
hope to gain clarity on how to handle the situation.
Subsequently, I could get further advice on how to appeal as
needed.
Relevant documents are linked to below
Relevant TMO for the parking PCNs
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h-C50pd9J55tvTq5pE3_XJ059tWAi_j6/view?usp=sharing
Notice for parking restriction
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qHEn96fnh9j9qnSCAilTfWEKuT4aLZKE/view?usp=sharing
Evidence for the existence of a valid virtual visitor permit
(PCN still issued)
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mNBSfwbjcOWY_XOK2sFAxzKIqmGkBn5o?usp=sharing
Email sent to council after the existence of PCN (known after a
SAR)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1crRZ2xtC_Sz_76-wfaSojBAUi5oo94Mf/view?usp=sharing
Final correspondence sent by the council
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nb3GjFtlkkx7z1fBACn9E788d77kOx10?usp=sharing
NTO and Charge certificates received through SAR
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nqPX5As2VKUp9AEXsQ8AEpIAewYCDWaV?usp=sharing
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3GESLHW.png
8 PCN's in total
- 5 PCNs the council has restored discounted payment for but
will not accept representations despite not receiving PCN or
NTO(2 of these days had valid permits).
- 3 PCNs no discount offered again(1 in OfR stage at TEC and 2
at pre - debt stage)
For the 3 PCNs to which the council has not responded
- For 1 PCN, I have evidence of a valid parking permit for the
vehicle on the date.Receipts downloaded from the council
website(link at the top of the post) can show the existence of
valid permits.
- For the other 2 PCNs, the TMO and parking space allocation do
not match.
ADVICE SOUGHT
What should I do next, please ?
- 5 PCNs where the Council has refused to consider the
circumstances? Should it be out of time to appeal to the
adjudicator since it is in the predebt stage?
- For the 2 PCN in Full Stage rate, should I wait for NTO to
appeal?
- For 1 PCN(at TEC), should I wait for TEC's response?
For all parking PCNs, I believe I have reasonable grounds for
appeal.
For the moving traffic contravention, I believe there is a
technical issue with the yellow box, and I am waiting for a
request to obtain copies of the relevant orders and camera
details
Historical Context
I was made homeless and unable to access the property where I
live due to several reasons.
A friend helped me find a location to store my car at the NORTH
PECKHAM ESTATE in Southwark.
The parking location was in a permit parking area, but every
day, the car was assigned a 'Virtual Estate Visitor Parking
Permit' and parked at various places where a space was
available.On 07 May 2024, the vehicle was assigned a resident
estate parking permit(valid till 07 May 2025).
This is an area where a lot of antisocial activity happens, and
tampering with PCNs on cars is quite common. I have had two
tyres vandalised in NP estate too.
Context - How I became aware of the PCN
On 23 May 2024, a neighbour was talking to me about my car and,
in passing, mentioned how expensive it must have been to deal
with all the parking tickets I was getting.
Since I had never seen any PCN on the vehicle, I raised a GDPR /
SAR request with South Council on the same day.
On 31 May 2024, following a Subject Access Request, as listed
below, Southwark Council returned to me with seven parking
PCNs(code 85) and 1 moving traffic PCN(code 31j).
None of Southwark Council's correspondence was received as it
was sent to my previous address (more on below).
Context - Why the PCN was not dealt with on time
Since I was a domestic abuse victim and I am being protected,
the DVLA has put in place special procedures for me to perform
transactions on my vehicle.
The DVLA requires me to work with a specially designated
caseworker to perform transactions such as changing the address
on my V5C.
I have been corresponding with DVLA since December 2023 and was
trying to obtain the form I need to use. Evidence shows delays
occurred, andDVLA only effectively updated my address on 30
APRIL 2024.
Current situation - Southwark Council refuses to comment on
evidence but insists procedure was followed
On 19 June 2024, I made representations to the council(email
attached), stating that the PCN was never received.
On 28 June 2024(5 AM), South Parking sent me several emails that
it was too late to appeal, and the NTO gave me 28 days to
appeal.
They added that my comments and evidence were seen but insisted
that the PCN was valid and that legal procedure was followed.
Questionable content was added(not sure if the wording/procedure
followed by Southwark Council is correct): However, as a
goodwill gesture, we will reoffer you the chance to pay at the
amount of £65.00 for a further 7 days from the date of this
letter. Failure to make payment will allow the case to revert to
its original charge of £195.00.
The last correspondence sent to me has offered to restore the
original payment of £65 for 7 days, after which it will go back
to the original charge or £195.
I enclose copies of the final correspondence sent by email with
the previous address still on it above.
#Post#: 28084--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=2106]FaeLLe[/member] your situation is potentially
critical but can be salvaged as long as you follow our advice.
JK09920129: This is at the pre-debt registration stage. To get
this reset you must follow the instructions here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/<br
/>(do not contact the council, ignore everything the council
says
and just follow the guide).
JK11077172, JK11097817, JK12943100, JK12954865: These are at the
pre-debt registration stage. To get these reset you must follow
the instructions here (this is not the same as the guide above):
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/<br
/>(do not contact the council, ignore everything the council
says
and just follow the guide).
JK10970350: This will require an out-of-time statutory
declaration using forms TE9 and TE7, this will require careful
drafting and may well necessitate a review before a county court
judge. It would be helpful at this stage to know whether you
qualify for remission of fees, see the guidance here on this:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees
There is no guide for OOT cases because they require detailed
case-specific submissions, unlike the other PCNs above where you
can make an in-time submissions, an OOT application is not a
tick-box exercise.
JK13079860 and JK13201148: There are no documents I can see for
these PCNs, how do you know about their existence? In any event
the council website suggests you're still in time to make
representations. I don't know what the deadline is as I don't
know when the notices to owner were issued, but if you think you
have an argument I would recommend you make representations
immediately on
HTML https://pcnevidence.southwarkparking.co.uk/pcnonline/index.php<br
/>and don't forget to add your new address (explain in the
representation that you've moved house) and take a screenshot of
the confirmation page once the representation has been
submitted. If you don't know when the 28 day deadline is, just
make a representation tonight. If you know when the 28 day
deadline is and you know as a fact that you have a few days
left, then post a draft on here first.
Summary:
Please read the guides I have linked and confirm whether the
steps you need to follow are clear to get those five PCNs reset
(note that there are two different guides, one for the parking
PCNs and another for the moving traffic one).
For the one where an OOT application to TEC is needed,please
confirm whether you qualify for remission of fees. We will have
to help you draft an out-of-time application to TEC.
For JK13079860 and JK13201148, confirm how you know about the
PCNS and whether you know when the 28 day deadline is. If it's
imminent (within the next 3 / 4 days) just submit
representations yourself as best you can. If you have at least a
week or more, post a draft representation on here first.
#Post#: 28102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: June 30, 2024, 6:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks again for your help cp8759. It is very kind of you to
support.
I have marked up below the next steps as I understand it below
each comment you have made.
I appreciate your help in reviewing.
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> JK09920129: This is at the pre-debt registration stage. To get
this reset you must follow the instructions here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/<br
/>(do not contact the council, ignore everything the council
says
and just follow the guide).
>
--- End Quote ---
I will check with TEC to see if the debt has been registered. If
yes, representations should be made using Form PE3 (which needs
to be witnessed by a commissioner of oath).
Southwark Council seems to have mentioned 14 days for the 50
percent discount. This appears to be procedurally incorrect as I
understand the discount for early payment must be within 21 days
if a CCTV operation issued the PCN:
HTML https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/parking-services/parking-and-traffic-charges-london<br
/>
Anyway, I can seek guidance later once the TEC formality is
complete.
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> JK11077172, JK11097817, JK12943100, JK12954865: These are at
the pre-debt registration stage. To get these reset you must
follow the instructions here (this is not the same as the guide
above):
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/<br
/>(do not contact the council, ignore everything the council
says
and just follow the guide).
>
--- End Quote ---
I will check with TEC to see if the debt has been registered. If
yes, representations should be made using Form TE9 (parking
PCN).
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> JK10970350: This will require an out-of-time statutory
declaration using forms TE9 and TE7, this will require careful
drafting and may well necessitate a review before a county court
judge. It would be helpful at this stage to know whether you
qualify for remission of fees, see the guidance here on this:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees
> There is no guide for OOT cases because they require detailed
case-specific submissions, unlike the other PCNs above where you
can make an in-time submissions, an OOT application is not a
tick-box exercise.
>
--- End Quote ---
TE9 and TE7 were submitted to TEC and an acknowledgement was
received:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rpOTbVpR5mBXg1vD9y2lY63NJ-Nc-VuU/view?usp=sharing
I have used the Ex106 form before and could be eligible for a
fee waiver. This is only applicable if we need to seek a review
of the TEC administrator's decision by a District Judge, am I
right?
For now should I hang tight and wait for TEC outcome?
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> JK13079860 and JK13201148: There are no documents I can see
for these PCNs, how do you know about their existence? In any
event the council website suggests you're still in time to make
representations. I don't know what the deadline is as I don't
know when the notices to owner were issued, but if you think you
have an argument I would recommend you make representations
immediately on
HTML https://pcnevidence.southwarkparking.co.uk/pcnonline/index.php<br
/>and don't forget to add your new address (explain in the
representation that you've moved house) and take a screenshot of
the confirmation page once the representation has been
submitted. If you don't know when the 28 day deadline is, just
make a representation tonight. If you know when the 28 day
deadline is and you know as a fact that you have a few days
left, then post a draft on here first.
>
--- End Quote ---
The following files were sent to me by Southwark Council through
the SAR.
JK13201148 (13 Mar 2024 - alleged contravention date):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bNkPWAI2q0cUqqi0pg2O5_qJJ_jkFjfn/view?usp=sharing
JK13079860 (09 Apr 2024 - alleged contravention date):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hX-UvkWMDKCJVmr0n3dX1vuXmv9mcfRL/view?usp=sharing
Both these PCNs show up as 'Next Stage' NTO.
Perhaps the NTO has not been issued for these two yet. Is that
why it's not shared in the SAR?
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> For the one where an OOT application to TEC is needed, please
confirm whether you qualify for remission of fees. We will have
to help you draft an out-of-time application to TEC.
>
--- End Quote ---
Most appreciated. As above, do I wait for TEC to respond to my
TE9 and TE7?
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> For JK13079860 and JK13201148, confirm how you know about the
PCNS and whether you know when the 28 day deadline is. If it's
imminent (within the next 3 / 4 days) just submit
representations yourself as best you can. If you have at least a
week or more, post a draft representation on here first.
>
--- End Quote ---
As above, since 28 days have passed, should I just wait for the
NTO? The relevant dates were in March and April 2024.
Thanks again for all the guidance and help!
#Post#: 28117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 1, 2024, 3:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
JK09920129: 14 days is the correct period because this PCN comes
under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act
2003, which provides for a 14 day discount period. The period of
21 days only applies to PCNs issued under the Traffic Management
Act 2004.
Yes you need to use form PE3 once the debt is registered.
--- Quote from: FaeLLe link ---
>
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=2383.msg28084#msg28084
date=1719784117]
> JK11077172, JK11097817, JK12943100, JK12954865: These are at
the pre-debt registration stage. To get these reset you must
follow the instructions here (this is not the same as the guide
above):
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/<br
/>(do not contact the council, ignore everything the council
says
and just follow the guide).
>
--- End Quote ---
I will check with TEC to see if the debt has been registered. If
yes, representations should be made using Form TE9 (parking
PCN).
[/quote]
Correct.
--- Quote from: FaeLLe link ---
>
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=2383.msg28084#msg28084
date=1719784117]
> JK10970350: This will require an out-of-time statutory
declaration using forms TE9 and TE7, this will require careful
drafting and may well necessitate a review before a county court
judge. It would be helpful at this stage to know whether you
qualify for remission of fees, see the guidance here on this:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees
> There is no guide for OOT cases because they require detailed
case-specific submissions, unlike the other PCNs above where you
can make an in-time submissions, an OOT application is not a
tick-box exercise.
>
--- End Quote ---
TE9 and TE7 were submitted to TEC and an acknowledgement was
received:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rpOTbVpR5mBXg1vD9y2lY63NJ-Nc-VuU/view?usp=sharing
I have used the Ex106 form before and could be eligible for a
fee waiver. This is only applicable if we need to seek a review
of the TEC administrator's decision by a District Judge, am I
right?
For now should I hang tight and wait for TEC outcome?
[/quote]
Just wait for the TEC outcome for now.
JK13079860 and JK13201148: You might as well submit a
representation now, it can't hurt. Post a draft on here in the
first instance. Make sure to give your current address.
#Post#: 35482--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 3, 2024, 9:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello all and [member=1]cp8759[/member]
I have been following up diligently on the PCN, and the latest
status is as below.
Updated obtained through phone on 03-Sep-2024.
Regarding JK10970350, I believe I now need to make an N244
application (I am eligible for Help with Fees so I can get an
HWF number).
Could you please help me with the content for the N244
application since they have rejected the grounds specified in my
TE9? Redacted versions of forms submitted to TEC are below:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rpOTbVpR5mBXg1vD9y2lY63NJ-Nc-VuU/
Could I repurpose the content we prepare for the N244 as the
content for making applications to TEC for JK09920129,
JK11097817, JK12943100 and JK12954865 (valid visitor permit
exists). I have only a few more days/weeks for this.
JK12943100: There was a valid visitor permit so PCN should be
invalid. Should a separate N244 application be made for this PCN
sharing this evidence (it was not included previously).
JK13079860, JK13201148: Should I wait for the TEC debt
registration or make further representations to the council with
evidence of a valid visitor permit (this was not shared
previously)?
Since the vehicle had a valid visitor permit (linked in the
table below) the PCN is really invalid.
JK13381731: I have only received a rejection, and the council
has not sent me a charge certificate (that I am aware of).
JK1357373A (new PCN)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b2rUjhhG5uLXN2Q9pEAwx6mKUSsovA0m/:<br
/>Should I make late representations for this? Could you please
help review the representations I previously made
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ea0Kb-zdnwU3mZVOcY9au2JYb_Pa9BOy/<br
/>and rejection provided by council
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14lNS9fn7QnCimYsUUIsqUr6XC4VUzY5I/<br
/>for JK1338173
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/12KVsf9z3StYlg2_UoB-q7IH4rOB-Pqmu/<br
/>since it is the same scenario as this PCN.
[table][tr][td][/td]
[td]PCN NUMBER[/td]
[td]STATUS[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK10970350[/td]
[td]TEC rejected appeal.
TEC informed me that Southwark Council rejected the appeal so
the TEC officer reviewed their decision and rejected my appeal.
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK11077172[/td]
[td]15 AUGUST 2024 - Debt registered with TEC
19-Jun 2024: Southwark Parking provided notice by email that the
PCN was not received and the registered keeper no longer lives
at the previous address.
02-Jul-2024: Email sent to Southwark parking requesting that the
charge certificate be cancelled, new address obtained from DVLA
and PCN be sent out.
08-Aug-2024: GDPR request to rectify address was provided to
Southwark council but the new address was ignored when debt was
registered with TEC.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK11097817[/td]
[td]15 AUGUST 2024 - Debt registered with TEC
Same as above
20-Sep-2024 (4PM): Deadline to appeal to TEC.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK09920129[/td]
[td]15 AUGUST 2024 - Debt registered with TEC
Same as above.
20-Sep-2024 (4PM): Deadline to appeal to TEC.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK12943100
[/td]
[td]13 AUGUST 2024 - Debt registered with TEC
Same as above.
18-Sep-2024 (4PM): Deadline to appeal to TEC.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK12954865[/td]
[td]13 AUGUST 2024 - Debt registered with TEC
Same as above.
Valid visitor permit exists:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a_OQkBRK59cqWLk7GIePcPQX-318X6GS/view?usp=sharing
18-Sep-2024 (4PM): Deadline to appeal to TEC.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK13079860[/td]
[td]No debt registered with TEC.
Council rejected representations.
19-Jun 2024: Southwark Parking provided notice by email that the
PCN was not received and the registered keeper no longer lives
at the previous address.
15 Jul 2024: Informal representation rejected -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Li8ycDXk1ZZBVMcVAfu3JGVgdQBXYAWL/
08-Aug-2024: GDPR request to rectify address was provided to
Southwark council but the new address was ignored when debt was
registered with TEC.
Vehicle had a valid visitor parking permit issued to them
(states it was valid for the entire day):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IL5K6GmdIvQhGU-3bBew1dRZfF3X5BgO/
Receipt downloaded from Southwark Parking website.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK13201148
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HvKKP0yk8AT0RILpry0jvmKNqlLyXynN/[/td]
[td]No debt registered with TEC as of 03-Sep-2024.
Council rejected representations.
Vehicle had a valid visitor parking permit issued to them
(states it was valid for the entire day):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bC7l746CvkxCAuDUE-_MYYgwLyMhSF15/
Receipt downloaded from Southwark Parking website.
19-Jun 2024: Southwark Parking provided notice by email that the
PCN was not received and the registered keeper no longer lives
at the previous address.
02 Aug 2024: Informal representation rejected -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ylSZ2j1Q-Nu0RdVOQPXASAMlwn3Pz00U/
08-Aug-2024: GDPR request to rectify address was provided to
Southwark council.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK13381731
[NEW PCN revealed through SAR - same location]
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/12KVsf9z3StYlg2_UoB-q7IH4rOB-Pqmu/
Vehicle was parked in the permit parking zone using a valid
permit.
Council issued PCN stating that the bay was a disabled bay and
no Traffic Order was required since the bay is compliant with
TSRGD 2016.[/td]
[td]No debt registered with TEC as of 03-Sep-2024.
Council rejected representations.
Vehicle had a valid parking permit to park in the zone.
Registered keeper got a copy of the effective traffic order from
Southwark parking team and Southwark traffic.
Traffic order was used to check permitted locations to park -
bay was not shown as disabled bay.
19-Jun 2024: Southwark Parking provided notice by email that the
PCN was not received and the registered keeper no longer lives
at the previous address.
18 Jun 2024: Informal representation made through website -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ea0Kb-zdnwU3mZVOcY9au2JYb_Pa9BOy/
16 Jul 2024: Informal representation rejected -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14lNS9fn7QnCimYsUUIsqUr6XC4VUzY5I/<br
/>
08-Aug-2024: GDPR request to rectify address was provided to
Southwark council.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]JK13581731
Same as JK13581731 - PCN was just handed over to me by the
driver.[/td]
[td]No representations made - kindly advice.[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
#Post#: 35487--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 3, 2024, 10:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Additionally, on 02 July 2024, I wrote to Southwark Council
stating the procedure from London Councils and asking them to
cancel the charge certificate and reissue the PCN (quoted
below).
Southwark Parking has indicated that they can 'consider' but are
not 'obligated to do so'.
This indicates that Southwark Parking considers following
guidance from the tribunal as optional. Full reply below.
Is there any way to use this in our representations to the
District Judge or the Tribunal for an out-of-time appeal (for
those in the Charge Certificate stage)?
P.S. Southwark Parking mentions some information was redacted,
but only confidential information (such as the secure
correspondence code with DVLA) etc. was redacted. My name, email
address and full contact details of DVLA agents was provided to
the council.
My email to Southwark Parking (02 July 2024), well before these
were registered with TEC as debt.
--- Quote ---
>
> We notice that the seven PCNs below are in the Charge
Certificate stage. Per paragraph 116 of London Councils' Code of
Practice for Parking Enforcement, Southwark Parking is requested
to cancel the Charge Certificate, re-check the address with
DVLA, and serve another NtO.
>
> If this request is denied kindly confirm the reasons for
deviance from London Councils code of practice formally in
writing.
> Evidence of delays incurred by DVLA to change the address on
V5C, due to which the NtO was not received, is attached to this
email.
>
> Quoting the Code of Practice on Civil Enforcement from London
Councils
HTML https://archive.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/parking-services/parking-and-traffic/parking-information-professionals/code-practice-civil,
> If an owner contacts an authority and says that the Charge
Certificate is the first notice received, the authority should
consider allowing the owner to make payment of the full PCN
charge (without the Charge Certificate increase) or make a
challenge. When this is received, the Charge Certificate and
preceding NtO should be cancelled. If the challenge is not
accepted, the owner’s address should be checked and another NtO
served (if within the time allowed) in order to give the owner
the opportunity to make representations. If the authority
chooses not to allow either of these options, for example, where
an owner frequently makes this claim, they should explain the
procedure for making a Witness Statement at the next stage of
the process.
>
--- End Quote ---
Southwark council responded individually in seven different
emails with the below text:
--- Quote ---
>
> Thank you for correspondence received in connection with the
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) JK12954865.
> We have noted your comments. However, you did not provide us
with an address to re-issue the notices and as a gesture of
goodwill we reoffered you another opportunity to pay the
discounted amount.
> London Councils website states and as you have quoted ' the
authority should consider' it does not state that we
areobligated to do so.
> The evidence you provided us had the necessary information
redacted and therefore had no bearing on your case.
> As it is the registered keepers responsibility to ensure that
their details are correct and up to date with the DVLA, the
legislation does not permit us to go back to the DVLA for an
updated address.
> We would like to inform you again that, the discount amount of
£65.00 is still payable until 22/07/2024. Failure to make
> payment will allow the case to revert back to its original
charge of £195.00 and the PCN will continue on its path of
> enforcement.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 35658--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 4, 2024, 2:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=2106]FaeLLe[/member] for JK10970350 I will send you an
email, this can't be dealt with efficiently on the forum.
JK11077172: You need to go back to the guide here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/<br
/>and follows the instructions from "As soon as the debt has
been
registered, use form TE9..." onwards.
You are at very serious risk of missing the statutory deadline,
you should file form TE9 as soon as possible.
JK11097817: same as JK11077172 above.
JK09920129: You need to use this other guide (not the same as
JK11077172!)
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/<br
/>from "As soon as the debt has been registered, use form
PE3..."
JK12943100: I have no idea why you're mentioning N244s or HWFs,
this is the same as JK11077172 above. Do not include anything
about valid visitor permits or anything of the sort, just follow
the guide and file form TE9 as instructed.
JK12954865: same as JK11077172 above. Do not include anything
about valid visitor permits or anything of the sort, just follow
the guide and file form TE9 as instructed.
JK13079860: You've said both "No debt registered with TEC" and
"new address was ignored when debt was registered with TEC",
which is it? If this has not yet gone to TEC, we don't know if a
notice to owner has been issued, but make a speculative
representation to the council anyway, this way if they've issued
one in the past 28 days you'll get a notice of rejection and
will be able to appeal to the tribunal (and if an NTO was issued
more than 28 days ago and your representations are disregarded
you can still go via the TEC route). Take a screenshot of the
confirmation page once the representation has been submitted.
JK13201148: Same as JK13079860 above.
JK13381731: make a speculative representation to the council,
this way if they've issued one in the past 28 days you'll get a
notice of rejection and will be able to appeal to the tribunal
(and if an NTO was issued more than 28 days ago and your
representations are disregarded you can still go via the TEC
route). Take a screenshot of the confirmation page once the
representation has been submitted.
JK13581731: Cannot find on the council website, is there a typo
in the PCN number or is this a different vehicle reg?
When I say make a speculative representation, include the
following text in the representation:
[indent]
I am making this formal representation because the council might
have issued a notice to owner within the past 28 days, in which
case I ask that this be considered as my formal representation.
I have not actually received the notice to owner, but that does
not prevent you from considering this formal representation if a
notice to owner has been issued.
[/indent]
As for this:
--- Quote from: FaeLLe link ---
>
> Additionally, on 02 July 2024, I wrote to Southwark Council
stating the procedure from London Councils and asking them to
cancel the charge certificate and reissue the PCN (quoted
below).
>
> Southwark Parking has indicated that they can 'consider' but
are not 'obligated to do so'.
> This indicates that Southwark Parking considers following
guidance from the tribunal as optional. Full reply below.
>
--- End Quote ---
This actually indicates that you have not read my instructions
above which say "do not contact the council, ignore everything
the council says and just follow the guide". Please do not
contact the council for any PCN where I have said not to.
Sorry if this comes across as a bit harsh, but there is an awful
lot going on in this thread and I do not have time to explain
the ins and outs of why you need to follow the steps I have
indicated, you're just going to have to trust that I know what
I'm doing.
Also you don't need to PM me, if you tag me when you reply I
will deal with it within 24 hours, usually far quicker than
that. That being said if you need any clarification please feel
free to ask, I'm more than happy to assist if anything is
unclear.
#Post#: 52680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Request clarity on procedure to take (Out of time appeal -
NTO sent to previous address due to DVLA delays) - Southw
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 9, 2025, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Outcome for one
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pfwKyNtkqTd0Nxr1d5tmTOilmpcyFnN6/view,<br
/>many more to go.
*****************************************************
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