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#Post#: 27982--------------------------------------------------
Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: Haveringresident
Date: June 30, 2024, 7:50 am
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Havering council
Failing to comply with restriction vehicles entering pedestrian
zone
I realise that I have left it too late for much advice :(
(didnt think Id be able to dispute it and then found your
site) but I suppose I am querying whether the signs and the way
they are placed can be disputed?
I entered the zone as 15.12 it is not a road I go into but I
think on that day traffic was at a standstill and I went in to
turn around and go back.
Im not sure what the requirements of the signs are but I didnt
see them and would not have been able to read them if I was
turning in quickly its a busy road.
These signs are placed straight on at the near edge of the road
so no chance of avoiding or turning around.
I feel that they should be placed at an angle so can be read
easily but maybe thats the point they want the money!
Photo link to One drive - hope that's ok to post as upload
folder full
HTML https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ap8lM3AI_i7_hJI0qxkbMr75qA1ryw?e=W3dDgV
Link to GSV
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/4fpj6vzoffSj95jN9
#Post#: 27989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 30, 2024, 8:29 am
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For meaningful advice have a read of
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up here all sides of the PCN (redact only name &
address, leave everything else in) and a GSV link to the
location.
#Post#: 27991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: Haveringresident
Date: June 30, 2024, 8:37 am
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I posted up the PCN with photos so not sure why they are not
showing - it was a direct upload. Have reduced photo size but
says upload folder full
Updated post with One Drive link and GSV link
#Post#: 28042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 30, 2024, 12:11 pm
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For convenience
[img width=451
height=615]
HTML https://db3pap004files.storage.live.com/y4mZT2vZlNpeHI38OK3TIhlaF47t7B1mQJzNgTSVM3MN-ZvB68lZwASrOYMI0BMAfpw_WIdH3oKhNGibTvfCBYVXTO1KZQSwWb7s8t60fblTKaNpdpEJdhrQ3mOfF8wnMKz98sEpInmqbRxXaZNg_M71CcX33cfasLpwpFUc-Q6dPe-HQbo7XnS4CGWZM4gdyYb8UwKgyLK5choyFYsOLs3_w?encodeFailures=1&width=451&height=615[/img]
[img width=293
height=409]
HTML https://db3pap004files.storage.live.com/y4ma435gCexCt8cbLHv6oHV0x152qRme5u40dlIvMqZi5ZQLENHb6UOZav9V9gBnYdaPMFj_8wSP6rS9bsHoN2Q8QpWVTucj6-VoLwSQCIWsEbmLVlmKPqblfKga_ZscXRMtoW-C0ZTLbQ8783uOYVI5OM6vgK5m2XkvTrGO97nbHFNUUJahgq6YX3HgGgMmvWuLV7STstYZY99Z9YpnZ_4yw?encodeFailures=1&width=293&height=409[/img]
[img width=455
height=614]
HTML https://db3pap004files.storage.live.com/y4maRI07XxQKYwsB4JL_j65m6gw96ynFr7JL-SK2JuRZo4HiGq1jC06lQBmTqU_yuCUYnQcD2M_NwU64gGrug_XW9DM4Z6bzf3Orh2_9kvxeHOEzHvvfvNBmJAWb2SVc8cA-TIk4bcQWi0YtDKpoS49gURtf8rE1Ay-7Cx86OUNruq3N4Wbmk8N0ADzG94hZkgCcMJQK0dk9HUz1IpzQkUdfQ?encodeFailures=1&width=455&height=614[/img]
[img width=640
height=360]
HTML https://db3pap004files.storage.live.com/y4mVioVGndVsHMaU-7K6WejoEJJdIDqbTrCamauyto8KXjNv606grumW59VFNGqheI-kG-fbtdFJhWEhnQW38NlUhDvhN0INQglxLkhCO_HqKPTDLH7RGAWifDXRTvvSkLh19XcWVazIOO20Vnjip8P_3aA2CYLaFGpL6JvPCUgasVVHctmlOAHFkcAQ2VYWb8faVtcxWb09F09fJSuRL6xAg?encodeFailures=1&width=640&height=360[/img]
#Post#: 28051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 30, 2024, 1:37 pm
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As previously advised: the ground re traffic order does not
apply to this legislation therefore the PCN is unenforceable.
#Post#: 28072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: Haveringresident
Date: June 30, 2024, 3:55 pm
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You said where previously advised. I've not seen any other
advice or where is says it is unenforceable.
Could you enlarge on this info please
Thanks
#Post#: 28086--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 30, 2024, 4:51 pm
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--- Quote from: Haveringresident link ---
>
> You said where previously advised. I've not seen any other
advice or where is says it is unenforceable.
> Could you enlarge on this info please
> Thanks
>
--- End Quote ---
The PCN has been issued under the London Local Authorities &
Transport for London Act 2003, and the statutory grounds for an
appeal do not include the first one on the list, (no
contravention of an order etc). This is only a statutory ground
under the Traffic Management Act 2004.
#Post#: 28097--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 5:55 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> The PCN has been issued under the London Local Authorities &
Transport for London Act 2003, and the statutory grounds for an
appeal do not include the first one on the list, (no
contravention of an order etc). This is only a statutory ground
under the Traffic Management Act 2004.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes it is, see paragraph 1(4)(b) here:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/paragraph/1/enacted
The website is more helpful:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/jUZt5sM.png
To understand why see the cases on rows 587 to 603 here
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=642784037#gid=642784037&range=A587<br
/>(click the case name in column D to open).
Here's the video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvwpavAptkE
GSV is out of date so it would be helpful if
[member=2138]Haveringresident[/member] could get us some photos
of the main road, both to show the visibility of the signs from
St. Marys Lane and also to check for advance warning signs,
ideally a photo from around here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/bM9qsxWHzGKFawt59
The traffic order is The Havering (Traffic Movement and Speed
Limit Regulations) (Consolidation) Order 2017
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QPmNRj0704PvB1innESyonltgtgusx86/view<br
/>and the map tile is here
HTML https://store.traffweb.app/havering/documents/parkmap/msched/AD21_rv1_2.pdf.
#Post#: 28106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 30, 2024, 7:04 pm
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I stand corrected !
I think I got confused with "procedural impropriety".
#Post#: 28113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Contravention code 53J Havering entering school zone
DIR By: Haveringresident
Date: July 1, 2024, 2:02 am
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I believe I have until tomorrow to pay if I have no reason to
appeal-date of notice 19th June tomorrow is the 14th day I
believe.
I will take time to read all the info above
I have taken a short clip from my web cam and slowed it down -
on my One drive. From 28 June
I'm not aware of any signs in St Mary's Lane or from the other
direction but will try and double check today.
The only sign I saw (or didn't see) was just before the entry to
the prophibited area
HTML https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ap8lM3AI_i7_hJI8N_3nz6mOEIEzCw?e=KP1ACB
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