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#Post#: 27823--------------------------------------------------
ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: Spoon
Date: June 28, 2024, 5:52 am
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I rent out my Motorhome through an online service called
'GoBoony', we rented our motorhome out to two renters on 2
separate occasions close to eachother. They both took the
vehicle into the ULEZ zone, one renter took it in 4 times the
other once.
We received the fine for these about 3 weeks after the MH was
returned on the last occasion to us and we obviously gave the
deposit back less some damage he had caused.
We immediately contacted the renters who promised to sort it, we
checked back in with him a couple of days later and he confirmed
it is in hand and they spoken to TFL.
Fast forward 1 month and we get a £4000 fine from ULEZ, the
renters did not sort this.
We contacted TFL and explained the situation to which they gave
us a form to fill out. In this form we included the rental
contract and agreement which states all Tolls are the renters
responsibility.
TFL got back to us in writing and stated as GoBoony is not owned
by us we cannot invoke the rental agreement on their behalf, i
then reappealed and explained the document is signed by myself
and the renter, goboony merely supplied the document. TFL
responded that because i am not a ltd company they cannot
transfer liability on any of the occasions.
Fast forward 6 months and we are stuck with a £7000 fine and
bailiffs trying to find us, i have appealed to the Traffic
Enforcement Center, but they have refused out out of time
application - no reason given and will not be given, but we can
appeal by paying £220.
In my searches i have found a VERY similar case that was heard
at London Tribunals case no. 9220805883 (in the RUCA section) It
is pretty much the same case.
I want to take TFL to court and get the court to force TFL to
transfer the fines to the renter.
I am a young father with 3 children, we simply do not have £7000
laying around or the ability to add anymore to our monthly
bills, i'm tired, frustrated and demoralised but this whole
situation.
Is there any advice out there that could help?
Evidence and PCN's:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TpCJ7L0fT_kJJtHJB69z_KF7MwVnlJdj?usp=drive_link
#Post#: 27825--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 28, 2024, 6:02 am
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--- Quote ---
> I have tried to upload the correspondence but the files are
too large.
--- End Quote ---
Have a read of
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
for guidance on posting images.
#Post#: 27836--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: mdann52
Date: June 28, 2024, 7:16 am
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The key question here is did you ever receive a formal notice of
rejection, and did you appeal to the tribunal following that
notice? How good your appeal is doesn't matter at the TEC stage,
just the reasons for getting here.
I'm not convinced that hire agreement meets the requirement of
Schedule 2
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2546/schedule/2/made,<br
/>as it doesn't include a DoB or licence number (unless that's
been retracted)
#Post#: 27845--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 28, 2024, 8:24 am
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OP, you need to get the timeline up front in a post pl.
We must see why you did not submit Statutory Declarations in
time.
You received OfRs dated ** and *** on *** and *** respectively
if you can remember.
Also, in TfL's letter 21 June 2023 they made it clear that there
were several reasons why they could not transfer liability and
these fell under the mandatory criteria of:
Vehicle-hire firm, and
Hiring agreement.
Separate matters. The former was explained by reference to your
status and the latter because you did not supply a 'copy of a
statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hiring
agreement'.
In any event, their rejection(s) were dated June 2023. What
happened since?
Ultimately you've got the option of paying and suing the persons
concerned. But even here you have a problem because the quantum
of the debts is well in excess of the minimum you could have
paid if you had done so at the earliest opportunity after you
had exhausted all procedural options. Frankly we can't really
advise when you 'fast forward 6 months'.
Pl read the enforcement process here and respond focusing on
those procedural matters which are key.
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/ruc/understanding-enforcement-process
#Post#: 27849--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: slapdash
Date: June 28, 2024, 9:04 am
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You left your name and address in the notice of rejection.
#Post#: 27907--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: June 29, 2024, 5:33 am
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These aren't ULEZ charges. They're LEZ (Low Emission Zone)
charges.
"The London Low Emission Zone requirements impact the following
vehicles exceeding 3.5 tonnes GVW: HGVs, lorries, vans, motor
caravans, motorised horseboxes, breakdown and recovery vehicles,
snow ploughs, gritters, refuse collection vehicles, road
sweepers, concrete mixers, fire engines, tippers, removal
lorries and other specialist vehicles."
Your camper appears to have a GVW of 4000kg. So the penalty
charge outstanding seems to be £3009 for each PCN plus
enforcement agent (bailiff) charges.
Why didn't you appeal the Notices of Rejection with the
Adjudicator?
How many PCNs are there, dates and PCN numbers?
How many Notices of Rejection?
And how many Orders for Recovery?
How many Notices of Enforcement from the bailiffs?
#Post#: 28018--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 10:32 am
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[member=2123]Spoon[/member] the courts have nothing to do with
this. Parliament has decided that such disputes are to be
decided by an adjudicator in the tribunal, not a judge of the
county court. Whether you agree with this or not, that's what
has been enacted in an Act of Parliament and unless Parliament
changes the law, that's the end of the matter as far as
questions of jurisdiction are concerned.
You have posted two notices of rejection which told you that you
had 28 days to appeal to the adjudicator, you would have been
provided an appeal form that you could have filled in and sent
to London Tribunals. Did you ignore this or did you appeal to
London Tribunals?
#Post#: 28040--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: June 30, 2024, 12:06 pm
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Just to add to the above.
Your opening post implies that there are five PCNs in play,
however the documents posted only relate to two of them.
The PCNs are LEZ (not ULEZ) PCNs and the penalty is £2000 for
each, discounted by 50% for payment within 14 days. They have
escalated beyond the Charge Certificate stage so now have been
surcharged 50% to £3000 plus the £9 court registration fee.
If there are five live PCNs the enforcement agents will be
looking for at least £15,655.
So what's the status of the remaining three PCNs?
You've told us that the bailiffs are trying to track you down.
That implies that you've either received Notices of Enforcement
or TFL have told you that the matter has escalated or that
you've had a visit from a bailiff, possibly at an old address?
Be under no illusions, if the bailiff doesn't know your correct
address they will track you down.
You've posted up two notices, from the Traffic Enforcement
Centre at Northampton County Court, refusing your applications
to submit Statutory Declarations Out of Time.
On what grounds did you submit the SDs? And what reasons did you
put for being late?
Strictly speaking you're now beyond the time limit to submit
N244 applications to have the refusals reviewed by a District
Judge. It's on the letters from the TEC. That said there's a
fighting chance that you might get such applications accepted
for a hearing if you get something submitted before 4pm on
Monday.
But right now I've no idea what you could say on your
application.
You need to start feeding back PDQ.
#Post#: 28087--------------------------------------------------
Re: ULEZ - Bailif Stage - Hired vehicle renters refuse to pay -
£7000 fine
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 4:53 pm
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Just to add, in theory it is possible to seek relief from
sanctions to submit an application for a review out of time,
because the court has a power to extend the 14 day time limit.
But again you need some pretty solid reasons, just saying you
didn't get round to it or weren't aware of the process won't get
you anywhere.
I'm also not sure there are any grounds for applying to TEC in
the first place, if you received the notice of rejection that
told you to appeal to the tribunal and you simply ignored it,
then you have no lawful grounds you could rely on to file
anything at all with TEC.
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