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#Post#: 27671--------------------------------------------------
Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: xskullx
Date: June 27, 2024, 6:14 am
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Hi FTLA Community,
Thank you for welcoming me to your forum! I'm looking forward to
learning more about council PCNs and contributing to the
discussions here.
I need some advice regarding a parking ticket I received. The
ticket is for "12S - Parked in a residents or shared use parking
place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or
pay and display ticket for that place."
Details:
Date Issued: 08/06/2024
Observed from: 10:30am to 10:35am
Deadline: This Saturday, 29th June (28-day period)
The ticket incorrectly lists my car as a SEAT instead of a
Polestar. Could this be a valid ground for an appeal?
I’ve included image links to the evidence I have for reference
at bottom of this post.
Additionally, I found this information on your website:
"06 No Pay & Display ticket
According to the issuing Officer's notes, there was no pay &
display ticket clearly displayed that covered the vehicle for
parking. An exemption is if you used the Phone & Pay facility
and had a valid parking session during the time the vehicle was
parked. However, the Officer checked this facility and no
parking session had been booked. The Officer also inspected the
vehicle and found no other displayed items (e.g., blue badge,
permit) that would entitle it to be parked at the time.
Therefore, I see no valid reason for cancelling the PCN.
A driver is responsible for ensuring that all necessary items
are clearly displayed when leaving the vehicle parked. This
includes making a quick check of the vehicle after it is
secured, as closing the door could dislodge any displayed items.
You have not provided a sufficient reason for not checking the
ticket was still clearly displayed, and therefore the CEO on
duty had to spend time at your vehicle when they could have been
enforcing other areas.
Any mitigation for not displaying a ticket (e.g., medical
reasons, whether the driver was alone or with a passenger) needs
to be taken into account."
This doesn't look promising for me!
I plan to use a template from the PCN Spreadsheet Liverpool
titled "Informal rejection - full penalty." Could someone
explain what the codes in bold mean within the below template?
"A PCN was issued to the above vehicle, because it was &OFF11
&OFF12 &OFF13 in &LOCPT on the &DOFFC. The vehicle was &TOBSB
and the Notice was issued at &TOFFC. The operational hours of
this restriction are enter restriction.
Insert appellant's reasons here and any points that require
answering...
Respond to appellant's mitigation (why it is not reason to
cancel PCN and answer points below)
Insert any paragraphs but edit so they fit in with the letter.
All type should be in black print.
(delete if not required)
We may reconsider your representations if you are able to
provide further evidence (more information) including an invoice
/ job sheet / in support of your claim. Please submit any
evidence for my attention directly to
Parking.Services@liverpool.gov.uk as soon as possible.
(delete if not required)
If you cannot do this, then the information provided is not
sufficient for the City Council to cancel this Penalty Charge
Notice."
Is it worth fighting this PCN, and could someone help me refine
the above template to strengthen my case?
Evidence below (it won't allow me to attach the files).
HTML https://ibb.co/FhRDTKh
HTML https://ibb.co/9ctQFD0
HTML https://ibb.co/TRd6NRq
HTML https://ibb.co/R7KGrzj
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
L
#Post#: 27682--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 27, 2024, 7:36 am
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Please post a GSV link to the location, see:
Guidance here.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
--- Quote ---
> (it won't allow me to attach the files).
>
--- End Quote ---
You need to use the BBCodes, so:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/p1YLFx1/1-New.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
HTML https://i.ibb.co/k51NR7T/2-New.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
HTML https://i.ibb.co/d6xFH6J/4-Street-View.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/TRd6NRq
HTML https://i.ibb.co/SJgDYRf/4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/R7KGrzj
#Post#: 27708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 27, 2024, 9:58 am
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The photos show you were parked somewhere here: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iX32bHqsKBJekTDB6
So, did you go and look for a sign giving the parking bay
restrictions ?
Here's the sign for the bay restrictions: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/eHseamVJXdwmQHmp8
Make of car is irrelevant, because it is not part of the
mandatory information required to be on a PCN.
#Post#: 27750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 27, 2024, 1:29 pm
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The contravention code is incorrect, 12S means a shared use bay,
but the sign in the EO's photos isn't, it's a straightforward
resident's bay.
But the code isn't mandatory.
So far you've told us nothing about what you did and why. It's a
resident's permit bay, so do you have and did you display such a
permit? If not, did you misunderstand the sign or perhaps
consult another one?
#Post#: 27835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: xskullx
Date: June 28, 2024, 7:11 am
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Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback.
Would someone mind checking my appeal letter to Liverpool
Council?
"To Whom it may concern,
PCN Number ******
Civil Enforcement Officer: ******
Vehicle Registration: ******
A PCN was issued to the above vehicle, because it was "12S -
Parked in a residents or shared use parking place without
clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display
ticket for that place" PALL MALL - L3 (CPZ) on the date
08/06/2024. The vehicle was a Polestar 2 and the Notice was
issued 10:35am. The operational hours of this restriction are
8:00am to 6:00pm.
I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently
request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at
the address listed below:
*****
Please note the CEO made two errors when issuing the ticket.
Please see below:
1) The contravention code is incorrect, 12S means a shared use
bay, but the sign in the EO's photos isn't, it's a
straightforward resident's bay.
2) My vehicle is a Polestar 2 not a SEAT as mentioned on the
PCN.
I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the
corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) now it is proven that in this instance,
the registered keeper is not the "keeper" (as defined under
POFA).
I believe that the signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and
prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. The
unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are
in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of
Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking
operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking
Charge.
I have included screen shot links of where the vehicle was
parked at the time of the offence (Link 1) in relation to where
the obscure signage is located (Link 2). Extremely high up and
out of view from where the vehicle was parked.
Link 1:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/LhtgXwkCh26FkHXWA
Link 2:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/bvLKZXNim6p2KnEQ8
Thank you for your cooperation. I look forward to your response.
Sincerely"
Would this be good enough to have the PCN overturned?
Your help is greatly appreciated and feel free to advise on what
to add or remove from my letter.
Best,
LD
#Post#: 27837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: mdann52
Date: June 28, 2024, 7:21 am
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That references completely the wrong legislation, and the
council will be able to dismiss it out of hand. Schedule 4 POFA
is only applicable to ticket from private companies, not
statutory PCNs. The only thing that matters with council signs
is they comply with the legislation, which these ones do.
Additionally, if you lease the vehicle, the council have to
issue the next notice to the lease company, who transfer
liability to you, so this isn't going to help.
You also need to answer the questions from H C Andersen and
Incandescent.
#Post#: 27995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 9:12 am
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[member=2109]xskullx[/member] is that from Chat GPT? If so this
just shows that the proliferation of AS (Artificial Stupidity)
is not the revolutionary tool everyone expects it to be (not
least because large language models don't actually understand
anything they're saying).
In short (sorry to be brutally honest) that draft is a pile of
garbage.
Please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and re-post the PCN without redacting anything. As stated
above,
you also need to answer the questions from H C Andersen and
Incandescent if you want our help drafting a proper
representation.
#Post#: 28422--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: xskullx
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:42 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> The contravention code is incorrect, 12S means a shared use
bay, but the sign in the EO's photos isn't, it's a
straightforward resident's bay.
>
> But the code isn't mandatory.
>
> So far you've told us nothing about what you did and why. It's
a resident's permit bay, so do you have and did you display such
a permit? If not, did you misunderstand the sign or perhaps
consult another one?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your feedback.
I was parked up for a dental appointment and was running late. I
am not a resident and could misunderstanding signs be grounds
for appeal?
On another note, I am prescribed anti anxiety medication for
general anxiety and and agoraphobia from my GP - could I use
this in my appeal?
Regards
#Post#: 28424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: xskullx
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> The photos show you were parked somewhere here: -
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iX32bHqsKBJekTDB6
> So, did you go and look for a sign giving the parking bay
restrictions ?
> Here's the sign for the bay restrictions: -
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/eHseamVJXdwmQHmp8
>
> Make of car is irrelevant, because it is not part of the
mandatory information required to be on a PCN.
>
--- End Quote ---
I did not no. However, could I use my Drs prescription for
anxiety as a means for appeal and not checking out of fear of
general anxiety and fear of open spaces?
Regards
#Post#: 28425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool Council PCN - Please Help!
DIR By: xskullx
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=2109]xskullx[/member] is that from Chat GPT? If so
this just shows that the proliferation of AS (Artificial
Stupidity) is not the revolutionary tool everyone expects it to
be (not least because large language models don't actually
understand anything they're saying).
>
> In short (sorry to be brutally honest) that draft is a pile of
garbage.
>
> Please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and re-post the PCN without redacting anything. As stated
above,
you also need to answer the questions from H C Andersen and
Incandescent if you want our help drafting a proper
representation.
>
--- End Quote ---
No not Chat AI, I have taken then template from a forum on MSE.
Thank you for the link.
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