DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 31014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: July 24, 2024, 12:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not surprisingly had a letter from Lambeth rejecting my
representations which they took to be a request for cancellation
in any case.
I have not uploaded the letter because I can't! I converted the
pdf from my scanner to both jpeg and png and it was rejected by
both imgur and tinypic. I am obviously doing something wrong but
I have no idea what.
Anyway the key lines are
"Please be aware that the time to pay the discounted amount is
correct. I have extended this discount time for a further 14
days from the date of this letter [16 July].
We sent you a PCN because our CCTV camera evidence shows your
vehicle going where vehicles are not allowed. The sign is round
white and has a red border, with a picture of a motorcycle and a
motor vehicle.....there is no exemption applicable to your
vehicle."
I don't think I have much in the way of grounds to fight this
one. They may have been technically wrong with the discount
period but now they are offering another 14 days anyway. I am
minded to pay at the discounted rate.
#Post#: 31033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 24, 2024, 4:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You have my email address.
#Post#: 31100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 25, 2024, 5:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Penalty Charge Notice details
• Ticket Reference
LJ2877492A
• Your PCN is at full rate stage. PCN process information
• Vehicle Registration Number
KY15HXG
• Colour
BLACK
• Make
SUZUKI
• Contravention
52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of
vehicle (motor vehicles)
• Location
Larkhall Rise (C)
• First seen at
Sat, 15 Jun 2024 18:27
• Issued at
Sat, 15 Jun 2024 18:27
• Served by
Post
The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to
£195.00 on Mon, 5 Aug 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we
replied on Sat, 13 Jul 2024. You cannot make representations
twice
And they responded on 16th July not 13th July.
The date of 5th August is also wholly wrong! Whichever way you
work out the 28 days!
Wholly wrong! NOR is dated 16th July. The earliest they could
send a C.C. would be 14th August.
I say appeal it. I would even wager they would issue a Charge
Certificate while an appeal is pending as is their want! :D
#Post#: 31136--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: July 25, 2024, 7:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for this Hippocrates. All taken from the Lambeth website
and I agree with you incorrect so far as date of NoR, date of
potential issue of CC and the use of "will" not "may" are
concerned. None of this replicated in the NoR itself. The NoR
has two different dates for the extended discount period [14
days from date of letter or date of service of letter] although
this is discretionary and probably not fatal to the NoR.
Your recommendation to appeal is based on the presumption that
the website is a direct form of communication with the recipient
of the PCN and hence errors here have as much weight as errors
on the PCN itself?
So far as my original letter to them seeking clarification is
concerned, I was trying to hold open the possibility of
following up with a formal appeal but they took that as a formal
appeal for cancellation and rejected it, claiming the discount
period was correct and in any case re-offering it. So no
opportunity to have another bite at the cherry.
#Post#: 31141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 25, 2024, 9:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Chaseman link ---
>
>
>
> Your recommendation to appeal is based on the presumption that
the website is a direct form of communication with the recipient
of the PCN and hence errors here have as much weight as errors
on the PCN itself?
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Correct.
#Post#: 31155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 25, 2024, 10:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So under which appeal grounds would this fall?
A “procedural impropriety” means a failure by an enforcement
authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by—
(a)the TMA 2004,
(b)the 2022 General Regulations, or
(c)these Regulations,
in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or
other sum.
If publishing information on a website or even linking to a
website - absent statements in a notice itself - was a PI then
the vast majority of TPT appeals would succeed and similarly ETA
because the Tribunals' key website info is flawed. But it's not
their duty, it's the authority's.
Now, if a person acted upon and within their notice but, for
example, payment was not accepted by the council then this would
be a different matter IMO.
Reference was made to 'cases' which apparently support the PI
claim. Could I suggest that the best two or three are referenced
for the OP's purposes.
#Post#: 31176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: July 25, 2024, 11:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Procedural Impropriety is not included as one of the allowed
grounds for appeal on the TA form. I presume one would tick the
box "penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable" on the basis
that having committed a PI the LA should cancel the ticket and
hence the applicable amount is nil.
If I appeal then, unless the LA shoots itself in the foot by
issuing a CC while the case is still pending, I am arguing on
the basis that the website can cause a PI to be committed, even
if the PCN or NoR does not. It would be good to have some
precedent that this argument holds water. I am in no doubt that
I fell foul of the street signage leading to the PCN so my only
ground for appeal is the PI. If we take the extension to the
discount period to be 14 days from the date of the NoR then I
have until 30 July (next Tuesday) to decide whether to pay at
the discounted rate.
#Post#: 31184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 25, 2024, 12:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Steady on. Do not file any appeal until after their whacko time
frames expire. I sent you a Redbridge case recently won which
would be similar.
I tell you they are in much disarray at present after a recent
hearing.
#Post#: 31211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: July 25, 2024, 2:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I know I have until 13 August to file with LT. My more immediate
decision is whether to appeal at all and if not to pay at
discount rate by next Tuesday. I am as yet not persuaded that
incorrect/misleading dates on the website is a slam dunk for PI.
The Redbridge case hinged on premature issue of a CC which
Lambeth haven't done .....yet.
#Post#: 31368--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorbike 52m PCN Lambeth
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 27, 2024, 5:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have never used the PI phrase. :) If allowed, it would be on
the ground that the penalty exceeded amount.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 4
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page