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#Post#: 27866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: June 28, 2024, 11:17 am
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Hi all, this is where I come back my tail between my legs.
I have to change my story as per previous posts because it seems
that I did in fact receive an EN. And I replied to it.
I'd just completely forgotten about it.
I only found it after trying to look for an unrelated file on my
computer that has "Harrow" in it.
I'll start again from the beginning;
Offence date: 03/08/2023
PCN date: 16/08/2023
Challenge date: Unknown
I can't remember the content of the challenge, nor can I find a
record of its date.
Payment date: 25/10/2023
Payment receipt for £65 received from Harrow by email.
EN date: 07/11/2023
I don't have a copy of this.
EN reply: 13/11/2023
I replied to the EN through the Harrow website with the
following;
Hello,
I made a payment for this PCN on 25/10 as per the
requirements on the website.
I clicked "pay" and I had no option but to pay £65.
I have now received a letter suggesting I have not paid fully,
when I did pay fully as per the options given to me on your
website.
Please can you let me know why this is the case? I am being
chased for a payment that I have already paid fully as per
the information presented to me, and now I am receiving
contradictory information by post.
I also attached a PDF of the payment receipt.
CC date: 17/06/2023
As per photos above.
CC reply: 23/06/2024
I replied to the CC through the Harrow website with;
Hello,
I have just received a Charge Certificate re this contravention.
On 25th October 2023, I logged into the online system on your
website to make a payment of the PCN.
I was not given an option as to how much was needed to be paid.
I presented with the fact that I needed to pay £65.00.
I paid this amount.
I have a receipt confirming this from you. Unique Tran ID
XXXXXXXXX. Payment Reference XXXXXXXXX.
I considered the matter concluded.
Since 25th October 2023, I have not had any communication
regarding this contravention at all.
I have now received a Charge Certificate that states I need to
pay £130.00. This Charge Certificate also refers to an
Enforcement Notice issued in November 2023. No such notice was
received.
I would request that the matter is closed. I paid the PCN in
good faith, and as per instructions on the website. I have had
no communication since October 2023.
Thank you
After sending this, I realised that I had received the EN, and
followed up with an email to parking.enforcement@harrow.gov.uk
(as the functionality to reply through the website had gone);
Follow up to the challenge for XXXXXXXX
To follow up to my previous communication with you re XXXXXXX.
I would like to add that I have just discovered that I did
communicate with your office in November 2023, as per the
attached confirmation.
I did not hear back from you following this at all.
Attached: confirmation of submittal of my original response to
the EN.
After all this, I do wonder if I screwed up in my response to
the EN, and maybe even my response to the CC.
#Post#: 27871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 28, 2024, 11:54 am
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Good news.
See the process, and it is only the process which counts at
present, so forget about the £65.
You received an EN dated 7 Nov. 2023.
You can evidence making reps on 13 Nov. which is 'in time'.
You did not receive a response to those reps.
From the Tribunal website:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process#rod
Statutory Declaration
Where an Order for Recovery has been made, liability for the
penalty can then only be challenged in the following
circumstances:
You did not receive the enforcement notice in question; or
You made representations to the enforcing authority concerned
but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority;
or..
CC dated 17 June 2024. The council may issue an OfR any time
after 9 July.
In any event you wrote to them (2024, not 2023) pointing out the
error of their ways.
If they don't see their error then an OfR would come your way
and in time you would submit a Stat Dec. and the matter would be
referred to the adjudicator.
It's all about the OfR now.
#Post#: 27881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 28, 2024, 2:39 pm
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Phew.
#Post#: 28008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 30, 2024, 9:59 am
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[member=2081]shadowliner[/member] you must follow the
instructions given in this other guide instead (this is not the
same as the one I posted above):
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
You want to start calling TEC around the 16th or 17th July.
#Post#: 28070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: June 30, 2024, 3:38 pm
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Thank you all. I have some reading to do
#Post#: 28628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: July 4, 2024, 9:04 am
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I was excited about the prospect of the PCN going to TEC and all
the associated processes, but today I received this from Harrow;
--- Quote ---
> Thank you for writing to us.
> It is now too late for you to challenge, or continue
challenging, your Penalty Charge Notice
> (PCN). The Enforcement Notice form we sent you gave you 28
days to challenge your PCN,
> but this time has now passed.
> We sent you a PCN because our camera evidence shows your
vehicle in a bus lane at a
> time when only buses are allowed there.
> The bus lane is clearly sign- posted and marked out on the
road surface. The legend ‘BUS
> LANE’ is marked on the road, and there is a solid white line
running along the right-hand
> edge of the bus lane for its full length. The onus is on the
driver to be aware of the bus lane
> and its restrictions. The signage and markings meet all the
statutory requirements as set
> down in the latest Traffic Signs Regulations & General
Directions. Please note the onus is on
> the driver to be aware of provisions relating to Bus Lines in
the Highway Code rule 141 and
> 142. These restrictions apply Any time (Monday - Sunday).
> I have reviewed your case, and although your payment was made
late, we have decided to
> accept the amount you have paid as payment in full.
> Please be advised that this does not set a precedent for
future notices, as each case is
> treated on its own merits. It is imperative that motorists
always comply with traffic sign and
> regulations, and payment is made on or before the 14 days
statutory period. I can confirm
> that the notice is now closed.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 28657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Neil B
Date: July 4, 2024, 11:23 am
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Well it doesn't change anything; the matter is certainly not
"closed" and you continue as previously advised
#Post#: 28839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 6, 2024, 11:22 am
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--- Quote from: Neil B link ---
>
> Well it doesn't change anything; the matter is certainly not
"closed" and you continue as previously advised
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, [member=2081]shadowliner[/member] I think you have shot
yourself in the foot by replying to the charge certificate. If
the council don't want to pursue the matter then it will never
go to TEC, and you cannot force them to. We can try, but if they
ultimately ignore you then that's the end of the matter.
For now you will have to write back as follows:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Harrow,
Thank you for confirming that "I have reviewed your case, and
although your payment was made late, we have decided to accept
the amount you have paid as payment in full", but this is not an
acceptable answer. Please would you reinstate the charge
certificate and register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement
Centre so that the matter may follow the statutory process.
Failure to follow the statutory process will result in a formal
complaint.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
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