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#Post#: 27256--------------------------------------------------
Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: June 23, 2024, 9:00 am
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Harrow council.
Being in bus lane. I appealed.
Offence date: 3/8/23
PCN issued: 16/8/23
£65 paid: 25/10/23
I paid £65 on the Harrow website as per instructions, then
forgot about it. I wasn't able to pay any more or any less, I
paid what the website told me to pay.
Now, I've received a Charge Certificate, 10 months after the
offence. And they're asking for another £130?
No enforcement notice received in November.
Not sure what to do here, as there seem to be no mention of how
to discuss/appeal this.
Charge Cert:
HTML https://ibb.co/QkS4bC2
(shame the pepipoo forums are no more, long live ftla!)
#Post#: 27298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 23, 2024, 2:06 pm
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Have you proof of payment, or can get something from your bank
to show that you have ?
It does seem to me they they are abusing the process. If you
actually had'nt paid, they could have issued the CC very soon
after the period for payment of the Enforcement Notice expired,
which would have been early this year.
As you did pay, they had no need to serve an EN, so you didn't
get one. It all looks like a council cock-up, but do first
check your payment went through first. Certainly DO NOT pay the
CC, because you can revert the process when they register the
debt at TEC.
#Post#: 27303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 23, 2024, 2:28 pm
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Ask the authority for copies of all notices sent to you. If they
won't then submit a SAR.
You need to see what's been issued.
#Post#: 27310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: June 23, 2024, 3:18 pm
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Thanks Incandescent and H C Andersen.
I have a payment receipt from the council itself in my emails.
My payment has been noted on the CC;
"To date you have paid - £65.00"
But it's the timelines that feels mad. I will attempt to take it
up with them and update accordingly.
#Post#: 27319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Neil B
Date: June 23, 2024, 9:17 pm
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So did you receive a rejection to your challenge (you called it
an 'appeal'), offering the chance to pay at discount again?
#Post#: 27324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: June 24, 2024, 1:13 am
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Putting two and two together, did you challenge informally, lose
the appeal, get re-offered the discount period and then pay at
the discounted amount but outside the period? So the Council
keeps your £65, records that you still owe the other £65 and
then bangs in the CC 10 months later calculated at the rate of
(£130 + 50%) - £65? Others can opine on whether the CC is out of
time but in the meantime it would be good to have the exact
chronology of PCN issue, date of challenge, date of rejection,
date of payment. I know you have given some of this already but
it would be good to get it in a clear schedule.
#Post#: 27332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 24, 2024, 3:25 am
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I paid £65 on the Harrow website as per instructions, then
forgot about it. I wasn't able to pay any more or any less, I
paid what the website told me to pay.
£65 paid: 25/10/23
EN issued: 7/11/2023
OP, IMO procedurally the issue is why you did not receive(if
indeed you did not) or action the Enforcement Notice.
Although(oddly one might think) having paid the penalty is not
one of the statutory grounds for representations, I feel
confident that had you proved you had paid the PCN would have
been cancelled.
#Post#: 27588--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 26, 2024, 12:55 pm
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Hold on a minute everyone, this is a bus lane PCN so a statutory
declaration can be made on the ground that the enforcement
notice was not received. This applies regardless of anything and
everything else stated in this thread so far.
[member=2081]shadowliner[/member] you must follow the
instructions given in this guide:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
This will ultimately see the Order for Recovery and the Charge
Certificate cancelled, and the council should hopefully issue a
new Enforcement Notice.
My view is that representations should be submitted against the
Enforcement Notice asking for a refund of the £65 you've already
paid, because we can use the undue delay argument on top of all
the usual arguments we use for London bus lanes. If the council
issues a notice of rejection, we can appeal to the tribunal and
hopefully get the £65 refunded.
Lastly please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and stop over-redacting documents.
#Post#: 27616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 26, 2024, 3:55 pm
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What nonsense from Harrow.
#Post#: 27690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Charge Certificate, even though I paid
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 27, 2024, 8:20 am
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HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process
Bus lane process explained for the OP. I am happy to represent
at the Tribunal.
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