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       #Post#: 26194--------------------------------------------------
       London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping in
       box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: smithakp1
       Date: June 15, 2024, 5:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       I am seeking some assistance and guidance regarding the PCN from
       the London borough of Havering for an alleged traffic
       contravention 31J: entering and stopping in a box junction when
       prohibited.
       The alleged contravention happened on the 29th May, and the
       notice was issued on 13th June which I received today.
       Here is the link to the PCN.
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/dZTdQ5v
       Here is the video
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/17B_3mOFQnngn4Tad0qVcIRMnlc5QmBrr/view?usp=drive_link.
       Here's the Google street view link:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/GPLzRJZji6ZxXxp46
       As you can see from the video, I was crossing the yellow box and
       the traffic in the front stopped. Since I could not go forward,
       I tried to reverse but had to stop within the box itself as the
       traffic behind me came to a standstill due to the traffic
       lights. I could only restart after the traffic in front of me
       cleared.
       I would like to understand if it makes sense to challenge this,
       and if yes, how must I phrase my representation?
       Many thanks for your assistance.
       Kind regards
       Smitha
       #Post#: 26198--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: Grant Urismo
       Date: June 15, 2024, 5:44 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm getting an 'access denied' message trying to watch the
       video, you'll need to set the permissions up so we can look at
       it.
       #Post#: 26201--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: smithakp1
       Date: June 15, 2024, 6:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       I have provided access to the video now.
       #Post#: 26215--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: June 15, 2024, 7:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not hopeful on the contravention itself, as the video shows
       you driving into the box with no hesitation, then being forced
       to stop when the bus stops, the care behind you also had to
       almost stop, but may have got away without a PCN by manoevring
       round the bus.
       There may be a "technical" defence based on the camera
       authorisation though, so wait and see what the experts say on
       this one.
       #Post#: 26245--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: smithakp1
       Date: June 16, 2024, 6:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you. Any advice please
       #Post#: 26308--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: June 16, 2024, 3:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: smithakp1 link ---
       >
       > Thank you. Any advice please
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Cameras do not need authorisation in this law. The whole of the
       PCN please.
       #Post#: 26337--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: June 16, 2024, 4:44 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=2009]smithakp1[/member] please post the remaining pages
       of the PCN.
       #Post#: 26381--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: smithakp1
       Date: June 17, 2024, 3:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi, here is the link to the whole PCN
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/koDHnQv
       #Post#: 26383--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: June 17, 2024, 3:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ah ah! The last bulleted ground is, ironically, invalid. This
       ground is not afforded in this legislation. I would make a
       collateral challenge on this as it causes confusion.
       As per their directions on the PCN:
       Dear Havering
       Ref: PCN                          VRM
       I make this formal representation against the said PCN:
       The PCN is unenforceable because it contains a ground referring
       to the traffic order being invalid which does not belong in this
       legislation. Therefore, please cancel it forthwith.
       Yours faithfully
       etc etc.
       ****
       (Yet another council which cannot simply copy and paste. They
       had major problems with their bus lane PCNs until recently.)
       I  am more than happy to represent if this goes the full
       distance. Let's see what their response will be.
       #Post#: 26399--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping
       in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road
   DIR By: smithakp1
       Date: June 17, 2024, 5:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you so much [member=24]Hippocrates[/member]. This is very
       helpful. I will go ahead and challenge this as per your
       instruction.
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