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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 26342--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: Faust
Date: June 16, 2024, 5:09 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=2005]Faust[/member] I think there may be plenty of
grounds but you need to read the guidance here in full:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> Then post the PCN with no redactions, don't use this
wetransfer.com nonsense (nobody wants to start opening loads of
links), we need the PCN number and the number plate.
>
> The PCN was issued by a MET community support officer but they
don't have a uniform that allows them to issue PCNs, so there's
a procedural impropriety.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your reply. I have uploaded more images with the PCN
and the location as well.
Link to the PCN:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KBHcyMDz5RGXTOZeWYmu-J5oRGsHGxFi?usp=share_link
And that the Google Maps street view location.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6bNt8ScJE1WS5E5S8
Let me know if that's alright.
Thanks.
#Post#: 26349--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 16, 2024, 5:21 pm
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--- Quote from: Faust link ---
>
> Link to the PCN:
>
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KBHcyMDz5RGXTOZeWYmu-J5oRGsHGxFi?usp=share_link
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=2005]Faust[/member] you need to change the sharing
settings to public please.
#Post#: 26351--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: Faust
Date: June 16, 2024, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Faust link=topic=2229.msg26342#msg26342
date=1718575745]
> Link to the PCN:
>
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KBHcyMDz5RGXTOZeWYmu-J5oRGsHGxFi?usp=share_link
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=2005]Faust[/member] you need to change the sharing
settings to public please.
[/quote]
Apologies, haven't checked that.
It should be available now for everyone with a link
#Post#: 26353--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 16, 2024, 5:49 pm
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Here are TFL's photos:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wHNYktA.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/BAaKEBc.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fZLkLyn.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tLlwEzV.jpeg
Here's an informal representation you can send:
[indent]
Dear Transport for London,
I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged
contravention did not occur. There are cars parked on the
footpath throughout this road, and the clear impression created
by the layout is that the red route restrictions only apply to
the carriageway. While ordinarily double red lines would apply
to the whole width of the road, the layout on St Helier's Avenue
completely contradicts that principle, and does not appear to be
sanctioned by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016.
In truth if there are white bays along a red route, there should
not be any double red lines either. If there were no red lines
adjacent to the bays, such that red lines appears only where
stopping is actually prohibited, it would be clear as day where
stopping is or isn't permitted.
As the confusing and unauthorised layout does not adequately
convey the effect of The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Merton)
Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2007, the alleged
contravention did not occur because the authority has failed to
discharge its duties under regulations 18(1) of The Local
Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996.
It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Send this via
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn<br
/>and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. TFL will
undoubtedly send a fob-off rejection, but this lays the
groundwork for the tribunal.
#Post#: 26370--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: Faust
Date: June 17, 2024, 12:20 am
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Thanks a lot [member=1]cp8759[/member]
All submitted now, wasn't aware I can access to these images.
--- Quote ---
> Your representation has been submitted.
>
> A response will be sent to the registered keeper / liable
party. The enforcement process is now suspended. We aim to
respond to you within 15 days. Please contact us in 21 days if
you have not received a response.
>
> Representation reference number - GF84653686 - 52395290
--- End Quote ---
If they decide to decline the appeal, means I will have to pay
for it?
#Post#: 26396--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: slapdash
Date: June 17, 2024, 5:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not at that point. There is an amount of guidance on the process
just before where you entered your post.
One point is whether the vehicle is registered to you or
somebody else.
They have a tendency to reject informal rejections "because they
can".
#Post#: 26467--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 17, 2024, 5:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Faust link ---
>
> If they decide to decline the appeal, means I will have to pay
for it?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not an appeal, it's just an informal representation. Much
as TFL would like to be judge, jury and executioner, it's not
actually up to them whether you have to pay because we don't
live in North Korea. It's only if you lose the appeal to London
Tribunals that you actually have to pay.
You should probably read this page to understand the full
process:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
Details of the appeal process itself are provided here
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained<br
/>but note that where they mention a "Notice of Rejection" that
refers to a formal Notice of Rejection that is only issued in
response to formal representations made against a Notice to
Owner; informal representations against a roadside PCN only lead
to an informal rejection which cannot be used to appeal to the
tribunal.
After the informal rejection has been received, the next step in
the process will be a Notice to Owner and we'll help you with
the formal representations.
#Post#: 26534--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: Faust
Date: June 18, 2024, 4:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Faust link=topic=2229.msg26370#msg26370
date=1718601636]
> If they decide to decline the appeal, means I will have to pay
for it?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not an appeal, it's just an informal representation. Much
as TFL would like to be judge, jury and executioner, it's not
actually up to them whether you have to pay because we don't
live in North Korea. It's only if you lose the appeal to London
Tribunals that you actually have to pay.
You should probably read this page to understand the full
process:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
Details of the appeal process itself are provided here
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appeals-process-explained<br
/>but note that where they mention a "Notice of Rejection" that
refers to a formal Notice of Rejection that is only issued in
response to formal representations made against a Notice to
Owner; informal representations against a roadside PCN only lead
to an informal rejection which cannot be used to appeal to the
tribunal.
After the informal rejection has been received, the next step in
the process will be a Notice to Owner and we'll help you with
the formal representations.
[/quote]
Thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't hold that knowledge, about
all the PCN appeal and system. But hope they will respond within
the 28 days.
#Post#: 26652--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 18, 2024, 7:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Faust link ---
>
> Thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't hold that knowledge, about
all the PCN appeal and system.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't worry about that, that's why we're here. Just let us know
when you hear back from TFL.
#Post#: 26858--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN by tfl police
DIR By: Faust
Date: June 20, 2024, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Faust link=topic=2229.msg26534#msg26534
date=1718702614]
> Thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't hold that knowledge, about
all the PCN appeal and system.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't worry about that, that's why we're here. Just let us know
when you hear back from TFL.
[/quote]
Thanks a lot. Really appreciate your help. Will update this
topic when I got a reply from them.
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