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#Post#: 26502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: June 17, 2024, 10:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RhysGrif link ---
>
> [member=38]Enceladus[/member] hello, I have checked my V5 and
all the information is correct. I have shown a receipt of my £70
payment to Swansea council and since that date I have received
not a single letter including the ‘NTO’ from the council.
>
> As you can see from my photos it was then taken to the TEC in
February which even then I had received no letters from either
the council or the TEC.
>
> The bailiffs turned up with ‘Warrant of Control’ for a sum of
£354 but I’ve been trying to contact them as there was no
explanation of why I’ve received this charge on the paper. Then
this morning they turned up at my door and clamped my car
demanding £454.
>
> On the images you can see they attached a document which i
presume the original charge was for a late payment and a Fee of
£44. I never received a letter to pay this sum and I’m guessing
it has escalated to this now.
>
--- End Quote ---
£454? Do you mean £464?
The breakdown of the £464 is:
£35 = PCN surcharge - Did you receive a Charge Certificate?
£9 = TEC registration - Did you receive an Order for Recovery of
Unpaid Penalty Charge?
£75 = Compliance Stage Fee - Did you receive a Notice of
Enforcement ex Bailiff?
£235 = Enforcement Stage Fee Bailiff - Bailiff visit to address
of Registered Keeper.
£110 = Sale Stage Fee - Car clamped
£464 = Total
I suggest that right now you have no choice but to pay the £464
immediately, to release your car and to prevent the bailiff from
towing it away.
You'll also need to, if it's even possible, submit an Out of
Time application & Witness Statement to the Traffic Enforcement
Centre (TEC). This will need to be carefully worded to maximise
your chances of getting it accepted as very likely Swansea will
object.
At the moment it's unclear what grounds you might be able to use
on a WS & OOT. In particular did you receive a Notice to Owner
prior to the 26th November 2023? The Swansea website implies it
was sent.
You've mentioned an appeal. I assume you mean that you submitted
representations to Swansea? When exactly and please post up the
response.
You mention something left by the bailiff at you parent's house.
Please post up that document.
You've mentioned the TEC? What's happened there? Did you submit
something to the TEC? When and what exactly?
You can still submit a Witness Statement and Out of Time even if
you pay the bailiff. And if successful you should get your money
back. But you need to get on with it.
#Post#: 26503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: lexy
Date: June 17, 2024, 11:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you're missing a lot of paperwork here. That makes it hard
to give you good advice, because timing is crucial here.
If you don't pay a Penalty Charge Notice on time, they send you
a letter called a Charge Certificate that increases the amount
you owe by 50%.
You say that you paid them the £70 that was due. The council are
saying it had gone up by that point, and you actually owed £105.
If you pay less than the amount that's due, the council are
allowed to keep it as part-payment and chase you for the rest.
They registered a debt of £44 against you. That's the £35
they're saying you still owe, plus the £9 court registration
fee.
The bailiffs got involved, and sent you a letter. That adds £75
onto the amount owed. That almost triples it, taking the total
to £119.
The bailiffs had to come knocking on your door. That adds £235
in enforcement costs to the amount owed, tripling it again and
taking it to £354.
If they visit you again and actually take steps to remove goods
(your car), it will add another £110 on, taking you to £464.
They're saying that this is justified, because you missed the
deadline to pay £70 by one day. We can't tell you if they're
right or wrong, because we'd need to know the date of service on
the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate - two pieces of
paperwork that you don't have.
In fact, you seem to be missing a lot of paperwork. In addition
to the Notice to Owner and Charge Certificate from the council,
you should have an Order for Recovery from a court in
Northampton and a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiffs as
well. Sometimes post goes wrong and people don't receive one of
these letters. But you're missing all of them.
You say your V5C is up-to-date and has the correct address, but
when did you update it? The V5C should have a date of issue on
the front page. Did you by any chance update it after September
last year?
You should stop having back-and-forth emails with the bailiffs.
They won't back down and it won't delay them from coming to
visit you again. They have been instructed to collect a debt on
behalf of a council, and they won't stop until they either get
the money, or the council calls them off. Also, they don't need
to give you any proof. Penalty Charge Notices are dealt with by
a special court in Northampton. Unless you fill out a certain
form and post it back by a certain deadline, the court
automatically sides with the council and gives them permission
to send bailiffs after you. This has already happened to you.
The bailiffs have a warrant dated February 2024.
If I were you, I would phone the council. Act confused (but
polite). Say you've paid it in full but you're still receiving
demands. It's a gamble, it might not work. But you might get
through to a nice person who's in a good mood that day and
decides paying £70 a day late is good enough and closes the
case, calling off the bailiffs. If that doesn't work, ask them
to send you copies of the paperwork. You really need the dates
for the Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate and Notice of
Rejection of Formal Representations (if it exists). The dates on
these are crucial in determining whether you owed £70 or £105 at
the time in question. They might be able to generate dated PDF
copies from their computer system and email them to you. You
might have to put in a GDPR Subject Access Request to find out.
Here's the thing - even if it turns out the council were wrong
to send bailiffs after you for the extra £35, there's not a lot
you can do about it. You'd have to ask the court in Northampton
for permission to file your paperwork four months after the
deadline. There is a form for that, but it's pretty hard to get
it accepted and you only get one shot at it.
#Post#: 26530--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: RhysGrif
Date: June 18, 2024, 3:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> [quote author=RhysGrif link=topic=2199.msg26432#msg26432
date=1718644077]
> [member=38]Enceladus[/member] hello, I have checked my V5 and
all the information is correct. I have shown a receipt of my £70
payment to Swansea council and since that date I have received
not a single letter including the ‘NTO’ from the council.
>
> As you can see from my photos it was then taken to the TEC in
February which even then I had received no letters from either
the council or the TEC.
>
> The bailiffs turned up with ‘Warrant of Control’ for a sum of
£354 but I’ve been trying to contact them as there was no
explanation of why I’ve received this charge on the paper. Then
this morning they turned up at my door and clamped my car
demanding £454.
>
> On the images you can see they attached a document which i
presume the original charge was for a late payment and a Fee of
£44. I never received a letter to pay this sum and I’m guessing
it has escalated to this now.
>
--- End Quote ---
£454? Do you mean £464?
The breakdown of the £464 is:
£35 = PCN surcharge - Did you receive a Charge Certificate?
£9 = TEC registration - Did you receive an Order for Recovery of
Unpaid Penalty Charge?
£75 = Compliance Stage Fee - Did you receive a Notice of
Enforcement ex Bailiff?
£235 = Enforcement Stage Fee Bailiff - Bailiff visit to address
of Registered Keeper.
£110 = Sale Stage Fee - Car clamped
£464 = Total
I suggest that right now you have no choice but to pay the £464
immediately, to release your car and to prevent the bailiff from
towing it away.
You'll also need to, if it's even possible, submit an Out of
Time application & Witness Statement to the Traffic Enforcement
Centre (TEC). This will need to be carefully worded to maximise
your chances of getting it accepted as very likely Swansea will
object.
At the moment it's unclear what grounds you might be able to use
on a WS & OOT. In particular did you receive a Notice to Owner
prior to the 26th November 2023? The Swansea website implies it
was sent.
You've mentioned an appeal. I assume you mean that you submitted
representations to Swansea? When exactly and please post up the
response.
You mention something left by the bailiff at you parent's house.
Please post up that document.
You've mentioned the TEC? What's happened there? Did you submit
something to the TEC? When and what exactly?
You can still submit a Witness Statement and Out of Time even if
you pay the bailiff. And if successful you should get your money
back. But you need to get on with it.
[/quote]
Hello,
Yes I meant £464. Upon reading your breakdown of the charges I
can confidently say that the first I heard of this was at the
‘Enforcement Stage Fee’ I had received no prior notice of any
other stages including the PCN surcharge. When I paid my fine
via Swansea councils portal, the fee to pay was £70 and since
then I haven’t received any information explaining I owed any
more.
I understand with the Out of time application you have to write
about your claim but I’m unsure what to word it as.
I have had to pay the bailiff the £464 fee to get them off my
back and the enforcement officer said that I would have to go
via the TEC for appeal process. I received no ‘letter of
enforcement’ the first I’d heard off the enforcement was when
they was at my front door demanding £354.
I will have to add another link of images with the documents
I’ve received off the bailiff.
#Post#: 26532--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: RhysGrif
Date: June 18, 2024, 4:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: lexy link ---
>
> Yeah, you're missing a lot of paperwork here. That makes it
hard to give you good advice, because timing is crucial here.
>
> If you don't pay a Penalty Charge Notice on time, they send
you a letter called a Charge Certificate that increases the
amount you owe by 50%.
>
> You say that you paid them the £70 that was due. The council
are saying it had gone up by that point, and you actually owed
£105.
>
> If you pay less than the amount that's due, the council are
allowed to keep it as part-payment and chase you for the rest.
>
> They registered a debt of £44 against you. That's the £35
they're saying you still owe, plus the £9 court registration
fee.
>
> The bailiffs got involved, and sent you a letter. That adds
£75 onto the amount owed. That almost triples it, taking the
total to £119.
>
> The bailiffs had to come knocking on your door. That adds £235
in enforcement costs to the amount owed, tripling it again and
taking it to £354.
>
> If they visit you again and actually take steps to remove
goods (your car), it will add another £110 on, taking you to
£464.
>
> They're saying that this is justified, because you missed the
deadline to pay £70 by one day. We can't tell you if they're
right or wrong, because we'd need to know the date of service on
the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate - two pieces of
paperwork that you don't have.
>
> In fact, you seem to be missing a lot of paperwork. In
addition to the Notice to Owner and Charge Certificate from the
council, you should have an Order for Recovery from a court in
Northampton and a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiffs as
well. Sometimes post goes wrong and people don't receive one of
these letters. But you're missing all of them.
>
> You say your V5C is up-to-date and has the correct address,
but when did you update it? The V5C should have a date of issue
on the front page. Did you by any chance update it after
September last year?
>
> You should stop having back-and-forth emails with the
bailiffs. They won't back down and it won't delay them from
coming to visit you again. They have been instructed to collect
a debt on behalf of a council, and they won't stop until they
either get the money, or the council calls them off. Also, they
don't need to give you any proof. Penalty Charge Notices are
dealt with by a special court in Northampton. Unless you fill
out a certain form and post it back by a certain deadline, the
court automatically sides with the council and gives them
permission to send bailiffs after you. This has already happened
to you. The bailiffs have a warrant dated February 2024.
>
> If I were you, I would phone the council. Act confused (but
polite). Say you've paid it in full but you're still receiving
demands. It's a gamble, it might not work. But you might get
through to a nice person who's in a good mood that day and
decides paying £70 a day late is good enough and closes the
case, calling off the bailiffs. If that doesn't work, ask them
to send you copies of the paperwork. You really need the dates
for the Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate and Notice of
Rejection of Formal Representations (if it exists). The dates on
these are crucial in determining whether you owed £70 or £105 at
the time in question. They might be able to generate dated PDF
copies from their computer system and email them to you. You
might have to put in a GDPR Subject Access Request to find out.
>
> Here's the thing - even if it turns out the council were wrong
to send bailiffs after you for the extra £35, there's not a lot
you can do about it. You'd have to ask the court in Northampton
for permission to file your paperwork four months after the
deadline. There is a form for that, but it's pretty hard to get
it accepted and you only get one shot at it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello,
When I paid my PCN via the online portal the only fee that was
requested was £70. I had no knowledge of the £105 fee
outstanding. The debt that was then registered against me I
didn’t have any knowledge about it.
The first I have heard about this escalation is the stage where
enforcement officer comes to my door. I have received no letters
from the council, the TEC & the enforcement agency, hence why I
am only now asking for support at this stage.
I haven’t received a letter from the court in Northampton, I
think I might have worded the V5 section wrong. My V5 is correct
I have a photo of it after using it to do my tax I will attach
it along with other documents.
I will have to contact the council and request the data they
hold on the PCN.
#Post#: 26539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: June 18, 2024, 5:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you receive a Notice to Owner, prior to the 25th of November
2023 or not?
You say you appealed, I assume that means you wrote to the
Council. Please post up the response.
#Post#: 26555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: RhysGrif
Date: June 18, 2024, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Did you receive a Notice to Owner, prior to the 25th of
November 2023 or not?
> You say you appealed, I assume that means you wrote to the
Council. Please post up the response.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello.
I requested my data from Swansea council for all information to
do with my PCN. I have now received a 44 page document of all
information attached. Do you want me to show
#Post#: 26585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: RhysGrif
Date: June 18, 2024, 11:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I requested the files that Swansea Council have on my PCN number
and have received a file that I have posted below. Along with
the two letters I received from the enforcement agency.
Enforcement letter(s) -
HTML https://ibb.co/album/xhN70Q
Swansea Council (Sort images by oldedst) -
HTML https://ibb.co/album/p2jfbW
#Post#: 26592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: Neil B
Date: June 18, 2024, 12:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That tells me, from a brief glance, that your deadline for
payment was actually the 26th!
#Post#: 26594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: RhysGrif
Date: June 18, 2024, 12:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Neil B link ---
>
> That tells me, from a brief glance, that your deadline for
payment was actually the 26th!
>
--- End Quote ---
So the date that I paid my PCN?
#Post#: 26595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs Swansea Council - 02 - Page Street
DIR By: Neil B
Date: June 18, 2024, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RhysGrif link ---
>
> [quote author=Neil B link=topic=2199.msg26592#msg26592
date=1718730975]
> That tells me, from a brief glance, that your deadline for
payment was actually the 26th!
>
--- End Quote ---
So the date that I paid my PCN?
[/quote]
You don't rush into anything yet!
Have you actually paid the bailiff?
*****************************************************
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