DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 33409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: August 14, 2024, 7:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Well, of course paying give you closure. On the other hand, it
gives them an albeit small sum of money for their incompetence.
I know what I would be doing, but it's your decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
Your supportive response enticed me to push further with the
following response ;)
I submitted my representations via the online portal. In my
representations, I clearly did not state that I paid the PCN and
provided reasons for my challenge.
To date, I have not received any correspondence regarding the
outcome of my representation, nor can I locate a record of them
on the website when I check the portal.
I will have no choice but to register an appeal at TPT, in view
of your failure to correctly deal with my representations.
I await your response to decide my next decision.
Regards
#Post#: 35355--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 2, 2024, 12:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Well, of course paying give you closure. On the other hand, it
gives them an albeit small sum of money for their incompetence.
I know what I would be doing, but it's your decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
They really want this £30 don’t they lol, this is their
correspondence below I can upload the original doc if preferred?
PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
Penalty Charge Notice Number: MC33821439
Date given: 30/05/2024 at 18:58
Place given: Oxford Road (Charles Street To Brancaster Road)
Vehicle registration: GL73EUO
NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATIONS.
Thank you for your enquiry making representations in connection
with the above PCN which we received on 15 August 2024.
The vehicle was recorded by CCTV in a bus gate on Oxford Road
between Charles Street and Brancaster Road (Southbound). This
bus gate is in operation 6am to 9pm, 7 days a week, the only
vehicles permitted to be in the restricted area are buses,
taxis, bicycles, and permit holders. As you enter the bus gate
there are signs and road markings to indicate the start of the
bus gate and an alternative route should have been taken.
I can confirm that the signage which informs drivers that there
is a bus gate in operation complies fully with all relevant
legislation (The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions). This legislation specifies the signage we must use
both at the start of the bus gate and the additional advanced
warning signage which is in place on all side roads leading to
the Oxford Road corridor. The lines and signs for a bus gate
differ from those used to identify a bus lane, the main
difference being we are unable to include any road markings (ie
coloured red and/or with the legend "Bus Lane"). Bus gates will
be marked with standard `no motor vehicles` signs - a red circle
with a motorbike above a car inside.
The decisions on where to locate the signs are made by qualified
Highways engineers who are experienced in the positioning of
road signs to inform drivers to whom they apply.
There are several bus gates on Oxford Road between Hathersage
Road and Portland Street. Some of the bus gates are in place in
both directions and others only restrict traffic in one
direction. For more information on the location of the bus gates
and the restrictions in place,
please visit our website:
HTML https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/471/parking_in_public_areas/7420/bus_gates/2
Manchester City Council, in partnership with Transport for
Greater Manchester, carried out a comprehensive communication
and advertising campaign to make all road users aware of these
changes which came into force in October 2017. Warning notices
were issued to motorists who contravened the bus gate for six
weeks before the restrictions were made `live`. Both Manchester
City Council and Transport for Greater Manchester continue to
work with satellite navigation companies to improve the
information available to update their equipment.
I have carefully considered your case and the Council does not
accept that any of the statutory grounds (listed below) or other
grounds for representation have been established.
On this occasion I am prepared to accept payment at the
discounted charge of £30.00. You must make payment within 21
days of the date of this letter or the charge will continue to
increase.
To view images or CCTV footage (where applicable) taken at the
time your PCN was issued, please visit:
www.manchester.gov.uk/parking
The penalty charge of £30.00 is now payable. This must be paid
before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date
of service of this Notice. See the last page of the Notice for
rules relating to service*.
You can pay £60.00. You have 28 days beginning with the date of
service of this Notice*.
You must now decide whether to pay the PCN or whether to appeal
to an independent adjudicator.
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we may send you a
Charge Certificate increasing the charge from £60.00 to £90.00.
You will then have 14 days to pay the increased charge.
If, after the 14 days, you have not paid the increased charge,
we may apply to the County Court to recover the money - plus
court costs - from you.
HOW TO PAY
- Online at www.manchester.gov.uk/parking and follow the links
to Pay PCN.
- By telephone credit/debit card payments only. Use our
automated payment line 0161 234 5006 (24 hours, seven days a
week).Please have your vehicle details and PCN number ready.
- In person at any PayPoint, you will need to take your PCN to
allow the barcode to be scanned.
Appeals
If you disagree with the council’s decision you can appeal to an
adjudicator at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The adjudicators
are independent of the council and their decision is final.
The grounds for appeal are as follows:
• The alleged contravention did not occur.
• Regulation 6(1), (other proceedings pursued) applies i.e. I
have received a fixed penalty notice from the Police or criminal
proceedings are being pursued for the same contravention.
• I was not the owner of the vehicle in question at the time of
the alleged contravention. i.e.
a) I was never the owner of the vehicle in question
b) I had ceased to be its owner before the detection date
c) I became its owner after the detection date. (You must supply
the name and address of the person to whom the vehicle was
disposed of/from whom the vehicle was acquired).
• I was the hirer of the vehicle concerned on the detection date
but I am not liable to pay the penalty charge under regulation
5(2) (i.e. I did not sign a statement that I would be liable for
penalty charges incurred during the currency of the hiring
agreement)
• I was the registered keeper of the vehicle on the detection
date but on that date: i) regulation 5(2) applies (vehicle
subject to a hire agreement)
ii) regulation 5(3) applies (the vehicle was kept by a vehicle
trader), and the recipient was either not a vehicle trader or
was a vehicle trader but not the vehicle trader keeping the
vehicle, or
• The penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the
circumstances of the case • Grounds of procedural impropriety.
You can appeal now by visiting the tribunals website:
www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/appeal
The website explains what the adjudicator can consider and how
to appeal. There is no charge for appealing and costs are not
normally awarded. You will need the information below to hand
when you begin your appeal.
Notice of Rejection date: 02 September 2024 PCN number(s):
MC33821439
Vehicle Registration Mark: GL73EUO Online Code: 98I424
You should appeal within 28 days of this Notice of Rejection
(usually 2 working days after the "Notice of Rejection" date
above - our website explains this) being served. If you are
unable to appeal online you may request a paper form from the
Traffic Penalty Tribunal by calling 01625 44 55 99 and leaving
your name, address, telephone number, vehicle registration
mark and PCN number.
Costs
The Adjudicator will not normally make an order awarding costs
and expenses to either an appellant or to an enforcement
authority but may do so where the Adjudicator is of the opinion
that one of those parties to the appeal has acted frivolously or
vexatiously or that the conduct in making, pursuing or resisting
an appeal was wholly unreasonable.
No order for costs would be made without giving the affected
party an opportunity of making representations against the
making of the order.
Yours sincerely
#Post#: 35606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 4, 2024, 7:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=629]cp8759[/member]
[member=629]Incandescent[/member]
Any advice on the new PCN NOR?
Many thanks :)
#Post#: 36528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 11, 2024, 5:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Received no fellow support feedback here :'(
Going to have to pay the fine I guess…
#Post#: 36547--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 12, 2024, 3:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: D D link ---
>
> Received no fellow support feedback here :'(
> Going to have to pay the fine I guess…
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, but we have to do other things from time to time, and
give our time freely on this forum.
As I said before, I would take them to the tribunal if it were
me, based on their management of the enforcement process. All
their NOR tells you, you already know. It would be something of
a gamble, and it's your money not mine.
#Post#: 36603--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 12, 2024, 8:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=D D link=topic=2173.msg36528#msg36528
date=1726092638]
> Received no fellow support feedback here :'(
> Going to have to pay the fine I guess…
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, but we have to do other things from time to time, and
give our time freely on this forum.
As I said before, I would take them to the tribunal if it were
me, based on their management of the enforcement process. All
their NOR tells you, you already know. It would be something of
a gamble, and it's your money not mine.
[/quote]
I appreciate your response. Is there a guide somewhere on how to
peruse the tribunal route with this that I can follow?
Thanks again
#Post#: 36627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 12, 2024, 11:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/how-to-appeal/
#Post#: 36643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 12, 2024, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/how-to-appeal/
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks do I have to notify MCC that this is what I’m proceeding
with?
#Post#: 36678--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 12, 2024, 4:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: D D link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=2173.msg36627#msg36627
date=1726158215]
>
HTML https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/how-to-appeal/
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks do I have to notify MCC that this is what I’m proceeding
with?
[/quote]
Not as far as I know. When you register an appeal, the TPT will
inform the council. It is best to always opt for a telephone or
video adjudication, not a papers-based one. The latter means you
cannot answer questions the adjudicator may ask.
#Post#: 37467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: September 18, 2024, 6:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have opened a case with the tribunals.
So far I have added,
Grounds of Appeal:
The authority made a procedural error
Explanation:
I am appealing based on Manchester City councils management of
the enforcement process and their failure to correctly deal with
my representations. The representations text does not seem to
appear on their website either.
In the evidence page there is the two NOR and on the second one
I have mentioned,
There was no statement made on the appeal of the pcn being paid.
I have added the original pcn to evidence and added,
The listed statutory grounds of appeal on the PCN are missing
these grounds.
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
Is there anything else I should add in the comments or evidence?
Thanks
*****************************************************
Page 5 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page