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#Post#: 28857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 6, 2024, 12:28 pm
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--- Quote from: D D link ---
>
> I have attached the policy I have received from which is the
DB link below.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's just a company policy, it's not a lease agreement. Have
you personally signed a lease agreement with anyone? If not,
it's very hard to see how you could be personally liable for any
penalty.
#Post#: 28867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 6, 2024, 3:26 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=D D link=topic=2173.msg28762#msg28762
date=1720204750]
> I have attached the policy I have received from which is the
DB link below.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's just a company policy, it's not a lease agreement. Have
you personally signed a lease agreement with anyone? If not,
it's very hard to see how you could be personally liable for any
penalty.
[/quote]
Thanks for taking the time to overlook.
I will request a copy of the lease agreement and see what they
come back with.
#Post#: 29755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 13, 2024, 7:36 am
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[member=629]cp8759[/member]
I love how they give you options to basically admit you was the
driver at the time but not anything else to say I am the driver
but this wasn’t the case.
I know it’s lte on the rep I’ve had a killer of a week at work
and was our daughters prom last night so there’s been a lot of
time helping with the school event prep.
Shall I select I was the driver what’s selected below?
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2q3UtNP
HTML https://flic.kr/p/2q3UtNP
#Post#: 29773--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: July 13, 2024, 9:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If the PCN you have now received states the same grounds of
appeal as the one sent to the hire company, then the PCN appears
to be missing these statutory grounds of appeal. Therefore you
can tick the appeal ground that a procedural impropriety has
occurred.
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
#Post#: 29883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 15, 2024, 3:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Phantomcrusader link ---
>
> If the PCN you have now received states the same grounds of
appeal as the one sent to the hire company, then the PCN appears
to be missing these statutory grounds of appeal. Therefore you
can tick the appeal ground that a procedural impropriety has
occurred.
>
> (g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
>
> (i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
>
> (i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
> (ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
>
--- End Quote ---
Appreciate your response, upon making the representation the
only options I have to move forward to entering my written
representation are the following,
I am the registered keeper of this vehicle
I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and the driver at the
time of the contravention
I am not the registered keeper of this vehicle but was the
driver at the time of the contravention
I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the
contravention I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the
time of the contravention)
We are a Hire and Lease Company
Which one would be best to select here?
Regards
#Post#: 29923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 15, 2024, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I asked for the lease agreement from the company again the other
day and they just sent me the same info I attached recently via
the drop box link.
A generic policy it seems.
#Post#: 30554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 20, 2024, 6:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Phantomcrusader link ---
>
> If the PCN you have now received states the same grounds of
appeal as the one sent to the hire company, then the PCN appears
to be missing these statutory grounds of appeal. Therefore you
can tick the appeal ground that a procedural impropriety has
occurred.
>
> (g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
>
> (i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
>
> (i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
> (ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi still not done anything with this yet as not heard back from
anyone here :/
You mentioned already via the procedural impropriety
This option is not available on the Manchester web portal only
these options I’ve listed below,
I am the registered keeper of this vehicle
I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and the driver at the
time of the contravention
I am not the registered keeper of this vehicle but was the
driver at the time of the contravention
I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the
contravention I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the
time of the contravention)
We are a Hire and Lease company
Shall I appeal via mail? Take copies and send via tracked
service?
Thanks
#Post#: 30557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: July 20, 2024, 6:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The listed statutory grounds of appeal on the PCN are missing
these grounds.
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
Also, the bit about being owner of the vehicle is misleading. It
says you must supply evidence but the regulations make no such
requirement. You must only supply evidence if the information is
known to you. The way they have worded it makes it sound like
you have no grounds unless you can supply the evidence.
If the PCN does not contain all the info the law requires it to,
the PCN is invalid and the penalty charge must be cancelled.
#Post#: 30603--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: D D
Date: July 21, 2024, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Phantomcrusader link ---
>
> The listed statutory grounds of appeal on the PCN are missing
these grounds.
> (g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
> (i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
> (i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
> (ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of
any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004,
by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of
Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
>
> Also, the bit about being owner of the vehicle is misleading.
It says you must supply evidence but the regulations make no
such requirement. You must only supply evidence if the
information is known to you. The way they have worded it makes
it sound like you have no grounds unless you can supply the
evidence.
>
>
> If the PCN does not contain all the info the law requires it
to, the PCN is invalid and the penalty charge must be cancelled.
>
--- End Quote ---
I understand what you have explained thank you.
But what I don’t understand is the methods of selection, the
website is different to the paper pcn appeal it does not include
procedural impropriety only the mail one has this.
So would it be best to make the paper appeal sent via tracked
service and hold copy’s?
#Post#: 30677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: July 22, 2024, 7:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If the online options has this one "the penalty charge exceeded
the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" then
select it instead. Whatever you select or submit, they have a
duty to consider.
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