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#Post#: 28147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: b789
Date: July 1, 2024, 6:45 am
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It would appear that this is a pay on exit car park where the
driver enters their VRM into the machine, the machine shows the
close up ANPR photo of the number plate when it entered the car
park and the driver agrees that it is the correct VRM and the
machine then calculates the payment due.
The NtK says exit was at 10:42 and the receipt says payment was
made and 10:40.
However, the receipt does show a single digit missing from the
entered VRM. Even so, their system should not allow a VRM that
was not recorded entering the car park to be accepted on payment
at exit.
The system is flawed and can be shown to be so if it accepted
the VRM with the missing digit. At POPLA, they should be put to
strict proof that their ANPR system logs show either the VRM for
the vehicle or the ANPR photo of the incorrect VRM.
#Post#: 28241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: Vike
Date: July 1, 2024, 5:28 pm
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Thank you both. My point exactly. They accept that payment was
made and I have re-submitted another appeal even though they say
that "you have now reached the end of our internal appeals
procedure." I asked them to please explain how the driver could
possibly pay a tariff that was not requested by contactless
card. They did not notice that there was a digit missing from
the entered VRM same as the driver did not. Apparently there was
a queue and raining and the driver was trying to be as quick as
they could. I had already mentioned in the original appeal that
the driver could not possibly pay anything other that what was
requested by the machine therefore it was the software that
requested an incorrect tariff. They have even said that as a
gesture of goodwill I can pay the discounted charge until
Wednesday! Maybe I should never have submitted the receipt as it
was originally thought that the machine was unable to print
receipts on that day, then the driver found the receipt and we
assumed it was obviously an erroneously issued PPCN.
Would redacted copies still help? the name and address has
already been redacted but the VRN and PCN number still remain.
Thank you for your help thus far.
#Post#: 28379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: Vike
Date: July 2, 2024, 3:31 pm
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HTML https://i.imgur.com/jGDyhXR.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ABVHBIL.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/DPMHiVi.jpeg
#Post#: 28395--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: Vike
Date: July 2, 2024, 5:23 pm
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Update
I have emailed PALS at Chase Farm and attached the PPCN and NOR
and hope that they can do the same as the Aldi manager in
getting the thing cancelled. I'll keep you updated.
#Post#: 28411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: sparx
Date: July 2, 2024, 9:21 pm
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Is this a car park that's also barriered (I.e. you drive up to
the barrier to exit, using a ticket or automatically through
ANPR)?
If so, and it let the car out, surely that could only mean that
they had paid...
I feel like there has been a few cases of these automated
machines going screwy, first
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/ecp-parking-pcn-payment-permit-not-enough-cover-treaty-centre-hounslow/<br
/>and I seem to recall another too...
#Post#: 28465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: Vike
Date: July 3, 2024, 9:38 am
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Hi again
No, this is an open air hospital car park that has no barriers
either in or out.
In the meantime I have contacted PALS with the following:
Hello Taurean
It was a pleasure speaking with you on the phone this morning.
I have previously spoken to someone at PALS about cancelling the
charge by Parking Eye as the driver paid for parking according
to what was requested on the machine.
I was told to appeal and let them know if the appeal was
rejected. It was rejected. PE say that they can see that payment
was made but they say it was insufficient for the period parked.
The driver can only pay what was requested by the machine and it
is not possible to manually alter this. The PPCN Ref No is
******/****** and the Registration Number is *******
. Please could PALS investigate this as quickly as possible as
Parking Eye is saying that we have until Wednesday 3rd to pay
the discounted charge "as a gesture of goodwill".
This seems grossly unfair as they accept that payment was made
but that it was insufficient. My point is that there is no
option to pay an amount other that what is displayed on the
machine. Someone involved was there as a patient at the
hospital. Thank you for your help in this matter.
I am attaching a copy the PPCN as well as one of the rejection
letter and a screen shot of the proof of payment.as requested.
I hope you can get Parking Eye to cancel this charge as it is
causing us a great deal of stress on top of the original medical
issue.
Thank you for your help in this matter.
All the best
Because it took several attempts for this email to reach PALS,
PE's "gesture of goodwill" to hold the discount for 14 days
expires today. and when I explained this to PALS it was
suggested that I appeal to POPLA anyway so that I don't lose the
discount.
I have attached the non-redacted versions of the original PPCN,
the NOR and a screenshot of the contactless payment, but not the
receipt withe the missing digit.
Is it not the case that once a POPLA appeal is made you lose the
discount anyway and the charge reverts to the full amount if the
appeal is lost?
What advice would you guys give me. I was hoping not to have to
go through the POPLA appeal process.
Thanks again.
#Post#: 28470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: b789
Date: July 3, 2024, 10:05 am
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It is not a “discount” but a “bribe” to incentivise you to. It
bother them with the laborious task of having to waste their
time rejecting your appeal.
Whilst you have contacted PALS, if you do not get confirmation
from them that the PCN has been cancelled then you will need to
appeal to POPLA. The POPLA code is valid for 33 days from the
date of the initial appeal rejection, not the 28 days mentioned.
Have you also complained to the CEO of the NHS Trust?
You should also refer PALS to the NHS car parking guidance 2022
for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles
#Post#: 28544--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: Vike
Date: July 3, 2024, 3:59 pm
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Thank you b789. Is there anything specific in the NHS Parking
Guidance that I can refer PALS to that may help my case?
It also worries me that I got the impression that PALS won't
just ask for the charge to be cancelled like the Aldi manager
did in my last thread, but that they will simply restate my
appeal to PE and hope that they accept which if they didn't when
I appealed, why would they do so now?
#Post#: 28551--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: b789
Date: July 3, 2024, 4:23 pm
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It’s for you to read and understand. The bit about
contracted-out car parking is certainly relevant.
NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private
contractors who run car parks on their behalf.
NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line
with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.
Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises
additional charges, for example ‘income from parking charge
notices only’.
#Post#: 28626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking Eye Chase Farm Hospital
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 4, 2024, 8:58 am
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There's no evidence that anything untoward is happening as
regards the Trust's processes for letting this contract.
Monitoring/oversight - who knows?
OP, back to the PCN.
General:
Your posts refer to 'I' and 'we'. If it's 'we' pl confirm that
any appeal would be made by the correct legal entity. Also, as
you were not apparently driving, what weight could PALS put on
any claims made by you?
Some thoughts.
The car park:
Is it pay on exit? I ask so that we hear it from you - although
this could be deduced.
If POE, then does this operate in the manner suggested i.e. the
only user input is a VRM?
If there aren't any barriers on exit then is it possible for a
driver to enter the wrong VRM, make a payment and still exit?
The obvious answer is yes, but only if that VRM is still
on-site. The key here is making a payment. The charge for
parking is not user-entry, it's a system function and requires
the system to match its input data(the VRMs recorded as entering
and being on site) with the data entered into the payment
system. A correctly functioning system then only has the
following options:
1. To notify the user that the entered data are not recognised;
or
2. To determine and indicate a payment due as at the time of the
transaction;
3. On payment of the indicated sum to produce a receipt(whether
this requires further user input as in 'do you require a
receipt' I don't know);
4. To abort the transaction
In this case, a receipt was produced - which hasn't been posted-
which means that the user entry was accepted by the system and
the full indicated parking tariff paid. The receipt indicates
that payment was made at 10.40 and subsequent operator data
shows VRM **** leaving the site at 10.42.
The tariff paid was £*****. Retrospectively, the tariff board
has been examined and the correct sum which should have been
calculated by the payment system was £***** being the advertised
sum for a stay of 1hr 48minutes i.e. between entry and payment.
Any variance between the user's payment and a retrospective
calculation is a fault to be laid at the operator's door i.e.
they may not visit errors in their charging system on to a user
but accept responsibility and maintain their equipment to the
required standard. It is interesting to note that miscalculating
the tariff was not the system's only fault at that time because
the receipt produced did not include the full VRM. As explained
above, this cannot have been the result of user error because
demand for payment is predicated upon the correct VRM having
been entered - unless this is another fault with the system i.e.
calculating random charges based upon the VRM of a vehicle which
isn't even on site and, as in this case(confirmed by DVLA),
doesn't even exist.
OP, what should have been the tariff based upon 1hr 48mins and
pl post the receipt.
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