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#Post#: 26110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 15, 2024, 6:06 am
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There have been a few cases on here recently where it was found
the Traffic Order did not exist, so worth checking. No Order =
No Contravention
#Post#: 26121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 15, 2024, 7:23 am
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[member=53]Staygulf[/member] the order is The London Borough of
Redbridge (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2013
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/19A6LZKje6gPO-0XCa_eNvY3vaVkL45xC/view<br
/>as amended by The London Borough of Redbridge (Off-Street
Parking Places) (Amendment No, 2) Order 2013
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/14HVl96wE6j1VgpD5Sa8pidjH1MBptYp2/view,<br
/>The London Borough of Redbridge (Off-Street Parking Places)
(Amendment No, 1) Order 2016
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bhL9TPNK-cMvT-zq-B8i1P1wVvGNrMrD/view<br
/>and The Redbridge (Off-Street Parking Places) (Amendment No.2)
Order 2017
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LNyl5-5mrFYpHzPsR4srTLNU4_jRSRTT/view
The council photos do not prove any contravention at all, as
they don't show any signage whatsoever (you do not want to alert
the council to this deficiency in their evidence):
HTML https://i.imgur.com/pR2ia6h.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1GfEqWO.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/RPV6vFX.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/dOo6kH4.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/2NN3cG1.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/o0vH7ON.jpeg
In these circumstances less is more, as you don't want to make
any unnecessary self-incriminating admissions. I'd suggest a
much shorter representation which the council is unlikely to
give any proper consideration to, but that will be clear to the
adjudicator:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Redbridge,
I challenge liability because nothing put the driver on notice
as to the effect of article 8(1)(b) of The London Borough of
Redbridge (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2013, and in such
circumstances the alleged contravention did not occur.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Send this via the council website and make sure to keep a
screenshot of the confirmation page.
#Post#: 26130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: Staygulf
Date: June 15, 2024, 7:36 am
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Thanks for that [member=1]cp8759[/member].
Just to be clear, are you saying that reference on the pay meter
to the Order is not enough, they have to include a reference to
parking within bays specifically?
#Post#: 26137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 15, 2024, 8:09 am
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--- Quote from: Staygulf link ---
>
> Just to be clear, are you saying that reference on the pay
meter to the Order is not enough, they have to include a
reference to parking within bays specifically?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure what you mean by "that reference on the pay meter",
but the council is under a duty to put signs up that tell you
what the effect of the order is. If the order says to park only
in marked bays, there need to be signs that tell you that,
because when you park your car you're not going to look up the
order (which isn't easy to find anyway) and start reading
through a 20 page legal document.
Any instructions on the pay and display machines are irrelevant
because the signs say that parking for blue badge holders is
free, so a blue badge holder would have no reason to go and look
at the pay & display machines.
#Post#: 26139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: Staygulf
Date: June 15, 2024, 8:18 am
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[member=1]cp8759[/member] what I meant was that the Order is
mentioned on the pay meter and thus drawn to the attention of
the driver. But I agree that no one would know what is in the
order when parking and your point about the blue badge had
crossed my mind.
I assume that the council will reject the reps, as they normally
do, and we will then have to decide whether to take it to
appeal. What do you think the chances are of a win?
#Post#: 26141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 15, 2024, 8:33 am
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The fact that the order is mentioned on the meter is irrelevant,
unless there is a full copy of the actual text of the order on
the meter as well (which there isn't). And even if there were,
the fact remains that as no payment is due by a blue badge
holder, a blue badge holder would not approach the machine in
the first place: you see the signs park in accordance with the
signs, display the blue badge and off you go. If you've parked
in accordance with the signs there is no requirement to go and
look at the parking meter "just in case".
If this case is properly argued on appeal I'd rate the
likelihood of success at something in the region of 90%.
#Post#: 26143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: Staygulf
Date: June 15, 2024, 8:35 am
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Thanks.
I'll proceed as planned.
#Post#: 27116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: Staygulf
Date: June 22, 2024, 8:36 am
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As expected, [member=1]cp8759[/member], the council have issued
a rejection notice, rather quickly:-
HTML https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgBjZaEfjV0RvCMA_MpohCjcxw__?e=nGWwYA
We will await the NTO and than make a formal appeal to the
council.
I guess this may arrive when I'm away (25 June to 14 July) but I
assume we will have a few weeks after then to appeal.
Help with drafting the appeal will be thankfully received.
#Post#: 27117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 22, 2024, 8:37 am
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You have 28 days from the date of receipt to submit
representations. Is there anyone who could check your post for
you?
#Post#: 27121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge PCN code 86 out of bay
DIR By: Staygulf
Date: June 22, 2024, 8:49 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> You have 28 days from the date of receipt to submit
representations. Is there anyone who could check your post for
you?
>
--- End Quote ---
28 days from receipt of the NTO? But they will surely await 14
days to see if we make payment before issuing the NTO? That
takes us up until 4 July and we are back on 14 July.
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