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       #Post#: 24826--------------------------------------------------
       Is this sign confusing?
   DIR By: Amsy
       Date: June 3, 2024, 11:38 am
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       Hi all, please can I have some adviCe for the PCN I received.
       I had parked my car in a hurry and when I read the sign I
       thought it said that no payment between 2-4, even the car in
       front of me thought the same and just parked.
       Anyway, it turns out that between 2-4 you can't pay and only
       residents can park.
       I wasn't the only one that thought the sign was confusing as
       other people came out and also thought that they could park for
       free during that time.  There were literally 5 cars with tickets
       on them.
       Do I have a case for appeal, based on the sign being confusing
       or shall I just pay it now?
       I have attached a picture of the sign and also the PCN.
       Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
       Thanks
       Amba
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 24831--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Is this sign confusing?
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: June 3, 2024, 12:01 pm
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       I don't think it's confusing. Between the two sets of hours for
       PbP parking, it is permits-only as per the permit holders times
       Mon-Sat.
       #Post#: 25249--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Is this sign confusing?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: June 7, 2024, 5:20 pm
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       The sign is incorrect, in these circumstances the restrictions
       should be split into distinct panels. Looking at this sign,
       there is no clear indication that the first "or" is different to
       the second "or", so you could read the sign and think you can't
       fulfil either the first nor the second criteria, which leaves
       you with "or Pay by phone" and think "alight, I'll do that".
       [member=1914]Amsy[/member] please have a read of the guidance
       here
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/,<br
       />post everything properly and I'll look at what other angles we
       can find before drafting a representation for you.
       #Post#: 25303--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Is this sign confusing?
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: June 8, 2024, 11:27 am
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       IMO, the sign is correct.
       See Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 3, 13.17.3:
       'Where 2 types of parking occur at the same time they are shown
       in a single panel separated by the word 'or'' ...as here.
       Separate panels are reserved for:
       Different activities e.g. loading and parking etc; and
       The same activity but not overlapping but occurring
       sequentially, which is therefore not a shared use bay.
       The word 'or' occurs where required i.e. immediately after
       'Permit holders' and has the effect of guiding the two types of
       user to their part of the sign i.e. permit holders to the top
       and non-permit holders parking to the lower part.
       IMO, this sign is consistent with the TSM:
  HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
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