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#Post#: 24717--------------------------------------------------
Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: vaibk
Date: June 2, 2024, 7:07 am
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Hi,
I got a PCN from the London borough of Hammersmith and Fulham
regarding an alleged traffic contravention 31j: entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited - camera enforcement.
The alleged contravention happened on the 5th of May, and the
notice was issued on the 22nd of May, so I need to challenge
this in a day or two.
Here is the link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X6zoPSORAfarV_82pLcrsZPcl1IjmoMV/view?usp=sharing<br
/>to the PCN.
Here is the video
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XB1h0icjdXrJpPbEi1F7gmJRFaSX-Q_s/view?usp=sharing<br
/>(silver Mercedes stranded on the yellow box).
Here are the zoomed out
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XDAEV4K-7VaMsw5vqrs8UZB-lO7TrwZ2/view?usp=sharing<br
/>and zoomed in
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XGWi4EAbWzEM4LCrToe9yDd8wUPeafxO/view?usp=sharing<br
/>images.
This is an incredibly big yellow box with poor lighting (under a
bridge) which does impede the ability to see how far the box
goes. It is apparently the most notorious yellow box in the
country.
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6pm80g8p5zo
Here's the Google street view link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/hR4CoAU31jXRqm4h6
When I set out into the yellow box, there was clearly a space
for me to exit the box on the other side. However, as I entered
the box, someone cut in front of me and got into the space
(evident from the video) leaving me stuck. I couldn't back my
car to enter a different lane because of the traffic.
As another line of argument, I read up the rules and it says:
you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and
are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other
vehicles waiting to turn right.
I would like to understand if it makes sense to challenge this,
and if yes, how must I phrase my representation?
#Post#: 24718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 2, 2024, 7:22 am
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The PCN is very difficult to read: please repost (all sides).
It can be argued that your exit was clear on your entry into the
box.
#Post#: 24721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: vaibk
Date: June 2, 2024, 7:33 am
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Thank you.
I have attached all the three pages of the PCN.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 24728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 2, 2024, 9:34 am
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Thank you - much clearer. You need to wait for the experts here
to give their opinions and to check over the 'small print'. If
you can get your reps in (use their online site) by the end of
the discount period (midnight on Tuesday 4th) then H&F may well
re-offer the discount if/when they refuse the reps..
#Post#: 24737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: June 2, 2024, 11:52 am
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We used to win with the right turn argument but not recently as
this is a gyratory system the cat taking your space is the
strongest argument but in representations you need to make them
all so the council can fail to consider them and give you
another argument re that
#Post#: 24739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: June 2, 2024, 12:09 pm
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--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> the cat taking your space is the strongest argument
--- End Quote ---
Just my opinion but I'd say that that the car in question was
perfectly entitled to take the space they did and that the OP's
car entered the box junction when their exit was already
blocked.
IMO, the yellow lines show the routes that the cars should have
taken:[attach=2]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 24742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 2, 2024, 1:27 pm
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Try this:
Dear H and F
Ref: PCN VRM
I make these formal representations as follows:
1. When I set out into the yellow box, there was clearly a space
for me to exit the box on the other side. However, as I entered
the box, someone cut in front of me and got into the space
(evident from the video) leaving me stuck. I couldn't back my
car to enter a different lane because of the traffic.
2. The PCN limits to one ground of representations whereas the
law states otherwise.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN as the
contravention did not occur and the PCN is unenforceable.
Yours faithfully
Registered Keeper
Address
*************
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
1(1) Do not spell it out to them. I have won a case on this.
#Post#: 24753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: vaibk
Date: June 2, 2024, 2:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> 1(1) Do not spell it out to them. I have won a case on this.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you so much. :)
I did not understand this footnote 1(1) referring to the first
point in your representation. Should I reword the statement in
the first para?
Also, should I include the link to the legislation itself in my
representation?
#Post#: 24970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 4, 2024, 6:14 pm
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--- Quote from: vaibk link ---
>
> I did not understand this footnote 1(1) referring to the first
point in your representation. Should I reword the statement in
the first para?
>
> Also, should I include the link to the legislation itself in
my representation?
>
--- End Quote ---
The last two lines after ***** is not part of the draft
representation, that's something Hippocrates has added just as
an FYI. What you will send to the council ends with your name
and address after "Yours faithfully"
You definitely don't want to add a link to the legislation, it's
up to the council to know the laws they purport to enforce.
Make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
#Post#: 24973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help: Hammersmith 31j - yellow box contravention
DIR By: vaibk
Date: June 4, 2024, 6:37 pm
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Thanks, I submitted this earlier today and as instructed
(without the text after ***).
I didn't take a screenshot of what I wrote, but I do have an
email from the council saying they got it (but it doesn't have
what I wrote).
I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'm not
very hopeful, but I figured I might as well try!
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