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#Post#: 14724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: February 1, 2024, 4:10 am
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Just to be clear. You need two forms for each PCN.
One of the forms is the Statutory Declaration itself, form PE3.
The second is an application to file a statutory declaration out
of time, form PE2. Out of time means late, beyond the normally
allowed timeframe. This needs to be very well worded or Enfield
will object and the TEC will refuse to revoke the Orders for
Recovery and the Charge Certs.
Don't just assume that addresses must be correct. Dig out the
V5c for the car and check.
Phone BAO if you don't get a response via email. Make sure you
point BAO to your thread on here.
Did you call the Traffic Enforcement Centre? What did they say.
#Post#: 14740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: February 1, 2024, 5:51 am
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I called the TEC this morning, and they pretty much confirmed
what you have said, I need to complete both the PE2 and PE3
forms, get them countersigned by a solicitor and email them to
the TEC, one email per PCN.
I have now done this, they are saying that their turnaround time
is 10 working days, and then the council would take another
working day to notify the collection agency to put the bailiffs
on hold pending their investigation. The deadline for payment of
the enforcement order is 9th February, so it's tight, but
assuming that even if the payment date of 9th February is
missed, it will take some time before the bailiff comes
knocking.
Regarding the address, I don't think its that that's incorrect,
something is going wrong within their processing.
I initially received two PCNs which I paid, these were for a
contravention after these ones discussed here
I then received Charge Certificates for the four that were
missing PCNs, so they had the correct address for those.
Then there was the Notice of Enforcement for all four, which
arrived at the correct address.
So, I am missing 4 x PCNs and 4 x OfRs, that's pretty strange.
#Post#: 14753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: February 1, 2024, 6:55 am
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Do you mean that you've already sent the completed PE2 & PE3
forms to the TEC? If so what did you put on the PE2 form in the
"reasons" box? Did you get advice from BAO?
Enfield can and likely will oppose your OOT applications, so
it's important that the reasons for being late are optimised.
Also be aware that you don't have to go to a solicitor. The
forms can be witnessed at any convenient County Court. The
County Courts have court officers appointed for this purpose and
there is no fee. Phone and check opening hours first. A
solicitor or a magistrate will charge a fee.
If you submit properly completed forms to the TEC before 16.00pm
on a working day then the TEC will/should inform Enfield Council
that SDs & OOTs have been submitted, on the same day. Else the
next working day. Enfield will have to freeze the bailiff
enforcement immediately pending a decision by the TEC which may
take several weeks. I don't know what the current turnaround is.
Also please confirm that you are the registered keeper of the
car?
#Post#: 14755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: February 1, 2024, 7:10 am
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I have spoken to the good people at BAO who provided an
excellent service. For a fee, they can complete the forms for
you, which I chose to do for one set, both PE2 and PE3, I can
apply the same justification wording to the remaining forms.
The problem with using a County Court to sign the forms is,
especially where I am, there is a booking system, I can't even
get through to the booking line at my local CC, so not
optimistic that I will be able to get a same day appoitment, my
local solicitor only charged £5 per form, so with it in the end
for such a small fee.
What are the next steps of Enfield deny my request? do I get an
opportunity to take this back to court?
#Post#: 14758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: February 1, 2024, 8:23 am
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If the TEC refuse your OOT applications then you will have to
submit an N244 application for review by a district judge. This
costs, for each PCN, £255 for a hearing in person or £108 for
decision based on the papers. And is non-refundable unless you
qualify for fee remission, so unemployed and similar.
If the judge refuses your application then you still have to pay
the bailiff, so it's a gamble.
Eight discrete pieces of post lost by Royal Mail, lacks
credibility. What would you say to the judge to explain what has
happened?
Hopefully you won't get to the N244 stage. What did BAO advise
you to put on the PE2 form?
#Post#: 14759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: February 1, 2024, 8:29 am
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I might go as far as saying it adds credibility. One piece of
missing post, could be due to an issue with the postal system,
but not 8, it points to there being a bigger issue somewhere.
Especially as the Charge Certificates and Enforcement Notices
did get delivered OK.
The fact that I paid the two PCNs from the 27th April on time,
which was after these other contraventions occurred, would also
be in my favour, why pay the last one and not the ones before,
makes no sense? And then why would I not have submitted the
Statutory Declaration when I reviewed the OfR if I had received
it?
Hopefully it doesn't come to an N244, but if it does, I am happy
to represent myself in court over this.
#Post#: 14775--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Neil B
Date: February 1, 2024, 11:21 am
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How did you manage to miss this advice and create an awful mess
for yourself.
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> You can check the outstanding penalty amount from anywhere in
the world. Once it goes up to £204 you know a Order for Recovery
has been issued. At that point you have 21 days to email the
statutory declaration to the traffic enforcement centre, so one
or two weeks abroad are not an issue as long as you deal with it
promptly when you get back.
--- End Quote ---
Have you mention which council this is?
#Post#: 14779--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: February 1, 2024, 1:01 pm
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I did check this quite often initially, then I hadn't checked
for a while, about 8 months have passed since the original
contravention date, so I kind of thought that they hadn't taken
it any further by that stage.
The TEC told me that the OfR was made around 27th November, and
I hadn't checked it at that time, and again, they should have
sent this through the post giving me the opportunity to submit a
SD.
The council is Enfield Council.
#Post#: 15467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: February 12, 2024, 2:57 am
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Well, that went well didn't it >:(
Just had the bailiff knocking on my door.
So, the enforcement notice only gave me only one week to pay
before sending the bailiff round, I submitted the Statutory
Declarations on the 1st of Feb, but I was advised by the TEC
that they require 10 working days to process, so nothing got
sent to the council to put a hold on the enforcement.
The date was the 9th of February, which was Friday, bailiff
knocked at my door at 08:00 today, Monday the 12th.
I was told by the bailiff that if I made the payment now and my
appeal was sucessful I would be able to claim my money back, not
sure if that's true or not, but I did make the payment of £1,300
so lets hope that it is the case.
Otherwise, just have to take it on the chin but that's a lot of
money to pay for what should really have been only £260 for the
four original tickets.
#Post#: 15471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 12, 2024, 3:41 am
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Sorry I missed this thread and my advice is now too late for
you, but hopefully not for others who might read this thread.
When an owner receives a Notice of Enforcement they should pay
it.
Why?
Because it caps their liability at the £75 Compliance Stage fee
and avoids a further £235 per PCN being added.
Paying has NO effect on any application to TEC, this is a
parallel process in which the decision is NOT contingent upon
whether the debt has been settled.
Out of time application succeeds = all monies refunded;
OOT fails = liability capped.
Why not submit an OOT instead of paying?
Because TEC delays do not affect the enforcement timetable and
therefore with current delays at 10 days or more an owner would
be liable for the £235 Enforcement fee (due 8 clear days after
NoE received) before TEC even registers the application and
notifies the council.
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