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#Post#: 1381--------------------------------------------------
Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: July 17, 2023, 4:20 am
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My wife had inadvertently been driving down a road with an LTN
once a week since end of March.
At the end of April, we received two PCNs which we immediately
paid and she subsequently found an alternative route thus
avoiding any further PCNs. We though that was the end of the
matter.
Now we have just received TWO Change Certificates dating back to
end of March, but we had not received any PCNs for these. If we
had back then, we would have paid them and stopped using this
route. Looking online at the PCN numbers I can see they were on
the same day, one going and one returning. There sees to still
be an option to pay or appeal, not sure what happens if I try to
pay the original PCN at the original rat of £65, doubt I would
be able to now a Charge Certificate has been issued?
I am now concerned that more CC are going to appear, as she has
used this route each week since the 23rd March, although there
was a two week break for Ester holidays (my wife is a teacher).
What can I do nor, how to I go about contesting the CC and just
pay the original PCN?
#Post#: 1384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 17, 2023, 4:38 am
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Firstly forget about paying the PCN at the £65 rate, we want to
explore all possible avenues for getting it cancelled first.
However before we get to that, you need to deal with the Charge
Certificate. A Charge Certificate cannot be challenged, but the
next document in the process (the Order for Recovery) can be,
under the statutory ground that you never received the Penalty
Charge Notice.
Have a read of the process on this page
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process<br
/>from the "Charge Certificate" paragraph down to the end of the
page.
Obviously the PCN didn't turn up so it's possible this might
happen to the Order for Recovery, so you don't want to rely on
the post. Instead, keep an eye on the amount due on the council
website, once the debt has been registered with the Traffic
Enforcement Centre, the amount owed will go up by a further £9.
At that point you are able to make a statutory declaration, even
if you haven't received any further paperwork.
You just need to print off form PE3
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice<br
/>and note that, counterintuitively, the box under "My reasons
are
(give full reasons)" should be left blank.
You will need to make an appointment at your local county court
to get it sworn, or most high street solicitors will do it for
£5 - £10. Note that you must not sign the form until the person
witnessing it tells you to.
Once that's done, you can scan or photograph the form and email
it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject
line.
If anything isn't clear, please ask.
#Post#: 1390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: July 17, 2023, 6:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the information, I will follow the described process.
Once the Charge Certificate issue is removed, will I then be
presented with the option to pay or to challenge the original
PCN?
Obviously, challenge the actual "offence" but would I have
grounds on the basis that I did not receive the PCN tithing the
specified time period, or at all even?
#Post#: 1414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 17, 2023, 3:11 pm
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When the Traffic Enforcement Centre issues a revoking order, the
council will issue a new PCN by post, and you'll be able to then
either challenge it or pay it at the discount.
However at that stage you should post the PCN on here and we can
look at whether it can be challenged on its merits.
#Post#: 2504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: August 3, 2023, 5:30 am
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An update on this one.
Since receiving the two Charge Certificates relating to
contraventions of the LTN in both directions on the 23rd March,
for which we did not receive PCNs for, we then received two more
Charge Certificates for the same contravention a week later on
the 30th March, again, no PCNs were recieved.As previously
stated, my wife used this route once a week, thankfully, the
following two weeks were Easter holidays, no she did not use the
route for two weeks.
The PCNs we did receive were for contraventions on the 20th and
27th April, but worryingly, only for one direction, when she
says she used the route in both directions, so potentially
another two Charge Certificates coming my way.
This is going to be difficult to keep track of all the dates
when these go to enforcement and I need to so a Statuary
Decleration. I guess I can't do just one to cover them all? The
declaration will need to be signed each time by a solicitor, so
I am going to rack up a fortune in solicitors fees as I doubt
they will do it for free.
What's the timescale from when the two week period for the
Charge Certificate expires to when I get an enforcement order
and how long do I get to submit Statuary Declarations? I will be
on holiday for a couple of weeks from end of next week, so won't
be able to deal with it while abroad.
#Post#: 2506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 3, 2023, 5:37 am
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--- Quote ---
> The declaration will need to be signed each time by a
solicitor, so I am going to rack up a fortune in solicitors fees
as I doubt they will do it for free.
--- End Quote ---
Free at mags or county court - see CP's post at reply#1
--- Quote ---
> This is going to be difficult to keep track of all the dates
--- End Quote ---
You should be able to phone Council and ask for details of
outstanding PCNs against your reg.mark. and the stage they've
reached.
#Post#: 2507--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: guest179
Date: August 3, 2023, 5:47 am
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Even better phone and write.
Something is fundamentally wrong and you need to get on the
front foot. So far you've received several CCs for PCNs which
you've not received. What next, not receiving CCs for PCNs you
haven't received or OfRs and then having bailiffs at your door?
This is serious so get to work and close the loop with the
council.
#Post#: 2630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 5, 2023, 11:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Andy6527 link ---
>
> This is going to be difficult to keep track of all the dates
when these go to enforcement and I need to so a Statuary
Decleration.
>
--- End Quote ---
Call the council and get a list of all the outstanding PCNs
listed against your car. Then set up a spreadsheet to keep track
of everything.
--- Quote from: Andy6527 link ---
>
> I guess I can't do just one to cover them all? The declaration
will need to be signed each time by a solicitor, so I am going
to rack up a fortune in solicitors fees as I doubt they will do
it for free.
>
--- End Quote ---
Free at any magistrates' court or county court (note: the
magistrates' court won't know anything about this and you'll
have to show them the bit of the form where it says it can be
witnessed by a justice of the peace).
--- Quote from: Andy6527 link ---
>
> What's the timescale from when the two week period for the
Charge Certificate expires to when I get an enforcement order
and how long do I get to submit Statuary Declarations? I will be
on holiday for a couple of weeks from end of next week, so won't
be able to deal with it while abroad.
>
--- End Quote ---
You can check the outstanding penalty amount from anywhere in
the world. Once it goes up to £204 you know a Order for Recovery
has been issued. At that point you have 21 days to email the
statutory declaration to the traffic enforcement centre, so one
or two weeks abroad are not an issue as long as you deal with it
promptly when you get back.
#Post#: 14662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: January 31, 2024, 7:43 am
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Hi, I know this is an old thread, but I have only just received
the enforcement notices for the four alleged PCNs. I have been
given until 09/02/2024 to pay, so not much time.
I can now submit a statuary declaration stating that I never
received the original PCNs, but what do I do with the
enforcement notice, there doesn't seem to be any option other
than just pay by the date specified?
#Post#: 14668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received Charge Certificate but not PCN
DIR By: Andy6527
Date: January 31, 2024, 8:58 am
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Also, what I have received is as Notice of Enforcement, rather
than an Order of Recovery, are these not the same thing? The PE3
form for the statuary declaration mentions OfR.
Looking at the PE3 form, I cannot see why it was necessary to
wait for the enforcement notice before submitting a statuary
declaration, could I have not done this when I first received
the Charge Certificate?
As this is now an enforcement order, presumably made by a court,
would that have an impact on my credit rating i.r. CCJ?
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