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#Post#: 24409--------------------------------------------------
Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Peter222
Date: May 29, 2024, 3:51 pm
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Hi all,
On 15th April I was snapped in a bus lane in Hammersmith
(London). I admit to this, of course, it was me on the bike.
On 2nd May I had to go to hospital, and was the next day
informed from home that a PCN had arrived for me. As I felt
unable to deal with it properly at the time I sent an email to
LBHF (London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham) requesting an
extension of the grace period. I got an automatic reply. I
phoned the number on the PCN and was reassured that as my email
had been received, the PCN was automatically on hold until a
reply was sent. Until now, there has been no reply so I assume
it's still on hold.
Nearly all of London's bus lanes now permit motorcycles as well
as buses and taxis and I've been sort of taking this for
granted. Suddenly here is a confusing sign, showing a bus lane
in the middle of the road, that I was trying to decipher and I
missed the fact that there was no motorcycle icon shown. In no
time I was past the sign and in the bus lane, which of course I
assumed was open to motorcycles.
Apart from the fact that I can think of no convincing reason to
exclude motorcycles from bus lanes, which suggests that this
exclusion may simply be a money-making scheme which works by
catching bikers out, I am fully resigned to paying the fine.
Unless there is a reason to challenge? Can anyone suggest
whether I have any grounds?
Many thanks
Peter
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 24413--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 29, 2024, 4:06 pm
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It's not a specific money-making scheme against motorcyclists,
although it undoubtedly makes a lot of money from all types of
vehicles, and is pretty notorious on this forum.
As I understand it, all the TfL-controlled bus lanes allow
motorbikes, but councils can decide for themselves, and you've
really no way of telling which bus lane is under which
authority, so the sign is crucial.
You can search the London Tribunals Statutory Register of cases
to see the cases at this location. Try the last couple of years.
HTML http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/
#Post#: 24421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 29, 2024, 4:40 pm
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Do not pay this at all. I will PM you tomorrow. They have not
adhered to the authorised plan of the Dept. for Transport for
starters!
#Post#: 24432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: estevenin
Date: May 29, 2024, 6:34 pm
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Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates
for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is
inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane
PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible
evidence :
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in
May 2024 or not.
#Post#: 24453--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 30, 2024, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: estevenin link ---
>
> Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates
for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is
inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane
PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible
evidence :
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
>
> Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument
in May 2024 or not.
>
--- End Quote ---
The vast majority of them have but they still need to attend and
be cross-examined. And one council, at least, uses one camera
which does not have a VCA certificate. This bus lane though has
other issues re the signage.
#Post#: 24497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 30, 2024, 1:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/the-shepherds-bush-bus-lane-which-raked-in-ps1m-with-confusing-signs-8498962.html
PM sent.
#Post#: 24561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Peter222
Date: May 31, 2024, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
>
>
> You can search the London Tribunals Statutory Register of
cases to see the cases at this location. Try the last couple of
years.
>
>
HTML http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way forward.
The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't find a
"search" button.
#Post#: 24563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Peter222
Date: May 31, 2024, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> [quote author=estevenin link=topic=2055.msg24432#msg24432
date=1717025675]
> Have the councils sorted the Secretary of State's certificates
for their cameras yet or still not ? If not yet, the evidence is
inadmissible at tribunals stage, all Greater London's bus lane
PCN for the past years have been issued without any admissible
evidence :
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2022/12/how-to-get-bus-lane-pcn-in-london.html
>
> Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument
in May 2024 or not.
>
--- End Quote ---
The vast majority of them have but they still need to attend and
be cross-examined. And one council, at least, uses one camera
which does not have a VCA certificate. This bus lane though has
other issues re the signage.
[/quote]
How would I find this out? An email asking for a copy of the VCA
certificate for camera number HBF302?
#Post#: 24565--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: May 31, 2024, 9:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way forward.
The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't find a
"search" button.
--- End Quote ---
Try
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
Hit 'Access the statutory registers' button
scroll; down to (ETA)
hit the 'search' button.
#Post#: 24569--------------------------------------------------
Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
DIR By: Peter222
Date: May 31, 2024, 9:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> [quote]Thanks for this pointer, but I couldn't find the way
forward. The site kept returning me to the home page. I couldn't
find a "search" button.
--- End Quote ---
Try
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
Hit 'Access the statutory registers' button
scroll; down to (ETA)
hit the 'search' button.
[/quote]
Well that worked, thanks, but on entering a 3-year period to
today, the location as shown on my PCN ("buslane shepherds bush
road southbound offside", and the borough, the search returned
only one result, a successful appeal based on the bus lane sign
not appearing in the CCTV photo. My PCN has the sign, although
it does seem to be slightly after the start of the bus lane
markings.
I wonder if it's worth riding back to the location with a tape
measure? It's not too far.
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