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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 31718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: Lee74
Date: July 31, 2024, 8:42 am
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Ok they have sent the NIP what is my reply to this please?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Q8bIQKK.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/FEcd4UE.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1jVKHfz.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/O0yuEok.jpeg
Thanks for any help
#Post#: 31741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 31, 2024, 11:24 am
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As said by others, it's not 'your' reply.
The NTO is addressed to your employer, yes? In which case the
penalty charge is being demanded from them, not you.
The regs provide:
Representations against the enforcement notice[AKA Notice to
Owner]
5.—(1) The recipient may make representations against the
enforcement notice to the enforcement authority which served it
on the recipient.
- my emphasis.
So, we need to know your intra-company protocols pl. You cannot
make reps without the authority of the company.
As regards the structure of any reps, I would go with...
PCN ********
We are making formal representations against the Notice to Owner
issued by you in respect of the above PCN. We consider that each
of the following grounds applies:
Procedural Impropriety;
Alleged Contravention did not occur;
Penalty charge exceeded the anount applocable in the
circumstances of the case.
There is no issue that our car was parked on a single yellow
line in *** at *** on ****. Our driver advises us that they were
unaware that the waiting restriction conveyed by the SYL was in
effect because they parked on a Sunday. We have read your reply
to their informal representations, seen the signs which they
would have passed when entering the zone and considered the PCN
grounds of contravention which are repeated in the NTO. The
following errors on the council's and the authority's part are
immediately apparent.
The signs in question are situated in Clement Street and Google
Street View gives us their precise wording and location as at
May 2024.
The signs at issue are of the form given in the diagram in Part
2 of Schedule 5 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regulations 2016.
including the optional lower panel.
The signs state:
Controlled ZONE
(no waiting symbol)
No loading
--------------------
Everyday
8am-7.30pm
We now refer to your letter dated *** rejecting *****'s
representations in which you have stressed the importance and
effect of these signs e.g. they are given in the Highway Code,
that further information is available on the DfT website etc.
You further state that these signs are in common use throughout
the country, thereby implying that there is no excuse for a
driver not observing their restrictions. On which point, we
would refer you to the Local Authorities' Traffic
Order(Procedures)(England and Wales) Regulations 1996,
regulation 18 of which states:
Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the
road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making
authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate
information as to the effect of the order is made available to
persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force
I am certain that the council's and the enforcement authority's
dilemma must now be clear.
The sign imposes a loading restriction concurrent with that for
waiting;
But there are no mandatory loading markings in Louisa Street(the
location of the alleged contravention);
If the waiting and loading restrictions apply concurrently then
there is no legal basis upon which it can be the case that only
one of these may be breached at any one time and, even if there
were, who would choose.
It therefore follows that Louisa Street is improperly marked and
the council has failed to meet its mandatory obligation in this
respect and consequently the grounds alleged in the PCN are
improper or,
That the council have marked the CPZ entrance signs improperly,
despite, as you say, there being extensive advice available from
government on this and them being in common use throughout the
country.
We look forward to receiving your considered response to the
above.
Probably a tad OTT, but hey-ho.
Incandescent, my GSV shows May this year, am I looking at the
correct one?
#Post#: 31744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 31, 2024, 11:38 am
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--- Quote ---
> Incandescent, my GSV shows May this year, am I looking at the
correct one?
--- End Quote ---
OP says he turned into Clements Street, an entrance to the zone,
and where the entry signs are located, then parked on a
single-yellow line in Louisa Street: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/M3qFpmyuK9N3rBFB6
GSV dated March 2021
Here is 66, Louisa St where the alleged contravention occurred
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/dmwbYwiJBE4hj4m88
GSV dated June 2023
#Post#: 31750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 31, 2024, 12:34 pm
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Thanks. Your link takes me to Clement Street j/w B4135 and my
GSV has views from May 2024.
#Post#: 45593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: Lee74
Date: November 14, 2024, 7:16 am
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Hi
We didn't hear anything after our letter and now the following
has arrived... Can you advise how we should proceed? Many thanks
in advance
HTML https://i.imgur.com/vYEZtNL.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1LSLM5X.png
#Post#: 45598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 14, 2024, 8:35 am
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OP, a key issue with your case is that the car is leased, and
you have not told us anything so far on what the lease company
do with any PCNs or Notices to Owner they receive. They hold the
V5C Registration Certificate for the car, not you and are
therefore responsible for payment or appealing the PCN, but can
submit representations giving your name and address as the
lessee on the contravention date.
You posted a Notice to Owner. Was the address on it yours or the
lease company ? If yours, did you submit representations ?
The next document you've posted is the Order for Recovery, (OfR)
but there should have been a Charge Certificate issued before
this. Was a CC received ? What address is on the OfR ?
#Post#: 45600--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 14, 2024, 8:40 am
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We didn't hear anything after our letter
OP, firstly please confirm that the Notice to Owner in your post
#20 and this OfR are addressed to your company, not the hire
company.
If so, then the procedure is that if reps were submitted in
accordance with the instructions on the NTO then you were
entitled to receive a response.
So, if the above applies then tick the box 'Made representations
but did not....'. Complete the rest of the form as instructed
and return to the Traffic Enforcement Centre as directed.
TEC will notify you that this Order for Recovery and the
preceding(which you didn't get) Charge Certificate have been
cancelled. The matter would then have to be referred to the
adjudicator by the council, not you.
#Post#: 45686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: Lee74
Date: November 15, 2024, 2:50 am
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Hi
Thnaks for your reply. The company own the vehicle they don't
lease.
#Post#: 56333--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: Lee74
Date: February 3, 2025, 5:54 am
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So this is currently with tribunals service. they've rejected
the form as it wasn't signed then rejected it agin as a box
wasn't ticked..
Ive now received this.. should I respond?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/HfS0hP2.jpeg
Many thanks for the help
#Post#: 56336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Birmingham, code 01 parked in a restricted street, Louisa
Street Bank holiday Sunday
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 3, 2025, 6:01 am
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--- Quote ---
> So this is currently with tribunals service.
--- End Quote ---
Don't you mean the Traffic Enforcement Centre ? You have to get
the process reverted before you can even think about an appeal
to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
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