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#Post#: 24186--------------------------------------------------
Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
DIR By: mitaab
Date: May 27, 2024, 8:42 pm
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Parked the car on a single-yellow line around 19:35. There was
no sign plate adjacent to the yellow line stating any
restrictions. The location was not within a Controlled Parking
Zone (CPZ), and no sign of which existed for that zone. The PCN
was placed on the wind screen.
On 18/03/2024 I submitted an informal challenge. However, after
almost three months from submitting the informal challenge, I
received their "Notice of Rejection of Informal Challenge". Is
taking that long to respond to my challenge acceptable?
I did provide them with photo evidence showing that there was
neither a restriction sign for the yellow line nor a CPZ sign.
Even their photo evidence did not show the same.
I hired the car from a rent company. Going to the NTO stage
means the rent company is going to charge me £60 in admin fee.
I would very much appreciate it if you could assist me with this
PCN.
As I am allowed only 4 files per post, please see below my
informal challenge:
"Please note that on the day in question, I parked on a single
yellow line, in the evening. I looked for a road sign showing
any prescribed hours or restricted time for the single yellow
line where I parked, but there was none. As a result, I was left
with a legitimate expectation that the single yellow line did
not have a restriction at the time of my parking. Please find
attached photos of the location where I parked confirming this
fact. Please can you cancel the PCN."
Thank you in anticipation.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 24206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 28, 2024, 3:46 am
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Please read this and update your post accordingly
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Looking at their letter of rejection, the location is stated as
"Anson Road (MA -Cpz), so it appears that you were parked in a
CPZ. However, you say you weren't so you really need to check
with Brent using their website, which should have their CPZs in
there somewhere.
Assuming you were in a CPZ, means there would have been no
signs by the yellow line, the yellow line restrictions are on
the CPZ entry signs.
However, the real issue you have is that taking the matter
further means the hire company will charge you £60 just for
admin in responding to a Notice to Owner. So it is a matter of
now paying £65 to Brent, or waiting for an NtO to turn up and
paying the hire company £60 for the privilege. Having paid the
hire company and got a Notice to Owner in your hand, you could
submit representations.
The only other issue is inordinate delay. 3 months is far too
long to respond to informal reps, although not actually
unlawful, it is very bad practice by Brent.
Wait a bit for others to respond as they may see something I
have missed.
#Post#: 24281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: mitaab
Date: May 28, 2024, 12:37 pm
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Incandescent, thank you for your feedback.
This is the GSV location of Anson Road where I parked. It is
clear that there is no CPZ entry sign at all:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/YREPV66zMxre32Nz7
The LA rejected my challenge without any supporting evidence.
#Post#: 24304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 28, 2024, 3:53 pm
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Have a look on here: -
HTML https://www.brent.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/where-you-can-park/controlled-parking-zones/cpz-map
There are definitely signs at the zone entrances I looked at,
like here: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/yfrMh71RaHnaq9hf8
and here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/rP11qxhoH69MbTTz8
So best thing is to tell us your route to the location you
parked at. If you can show that you did not pass a CPZ sign
then you can submit reps on that basis. HOwever, you've told us
that just to get to the Notice to Owner stage, you have to pay
the hire company £60, then you could have your reps rejected by
the council. I think you have something called a dilemma !
HTML https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dilemma
#Post#: 24327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: mitaab
Date: May 28, 2024, 7:21 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Have a look on here: -
>
HTML https://www.brent.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/where-you-can-park/controlled-parking-zones/cpz-map
> There are definitely signs at the zone entrances I looked at,
like here: -
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/yfrMh71RaHnaq9hf8
> and here
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/rP11qxhoH69MbTTz8
>
> So best thing is to tell us your route to the location you
parked at. If you can show that you did not pass a CPZ sign
then you can submit reps on that basis.
>
--- End Quote ---
The CPZ sign in your third link is completely at the other end
of Anson Road, which is quite a distance from where I parked,
and is not part of my journey.
I drove from Willesden Green along Chichele Rd, then turning
right at the traffic light into Anson Road, parking next to
house number 46. There was no CPZ sign at the Entry.
If there was a CPZ sign applicable to the entry of the zone
where I parked, why didn't the traffic warden upload a photo of
it on the their website along with the car photos?
#Post#: 24328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: mitaab
Date: May 28, 2024, 7:30 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> HOwever, you've told us that just to get to the Notice to
Owner stage, you have to pay the hire company £60, then you
could have your reps rejected by the council. I think you have
something called a dilemma !
>
>
HTML https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dilemma
>
--- End Quote ---
I am hoping that with your help, I would win the appeal and get
the PCN cancelled. This would encourage me to request a refund
of the £60 as a good will gesture on the part of the hire
company. This is what they told me over the phone.
Thank you for increasing my vocabulary! :)
#Post#: 24335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 29, 2024, 4:14 am
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If you started at Willesden Green you were already in a CPZ.
In this area there are a large number of CPZs all together if
you look at the Brent CPZ map. Hopefully, somebody on here can
explain the sign guidance on where one CPZ butts up against
another one. As far as I know, there should be signs at the
boundaries between CPZs, but if the yellow line restrictions are
the same, does there need to be a sign at the boundary ?
Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will comment.
#Post#: 24489--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 30, 2024, 11:50 am
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[member=1857]mitaab[/member] can you please draw us a map
showing how you got to that particular SYL in the first place?
We can't form a definitive view of the strength of your case
without this information, and also without the traffic order
(which I can get hold of).
To this end, please can you post the original PCN leaving the
number plate and VRM visible, as per the guidance
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/.
#Post#: 24601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: mitaab
Date: May 31, 2024, 2:58 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1857]mitaab[/member] can you please draw us a map
showing how you got to that particular SYL in the first place?
>
> We can't form a definitive view of the strength of your case
without this information, and also without the traffic order
(which I can get hold of).
>
> To this end, please can you post the original PCN leaving the
number plate and VRM visible, as per the guidance
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi cp8759
This link shows the route of my journey:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/McZpVvyZUPgzAQEX8
I have misplaced the PCN. How do I get a copy of it?
Isn't the VRM the same as the number plate? Providing this
information, wouldn't it reveal the name and address of the
person?
Look forward to hearing from you.
#Post#: 24615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code
01
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 31, 2024, 5:15 pm
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At your first left turn, you pass this sign
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ctFeijho1K44n2QN8
for CPZ 'G'
The back of the sign shows the "End of Zone" sign.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/doscfRfQGEaz5u5k7
If, while tootling along, you decide to turn off the main road
into Strode Road, which is in another CPZ you see these signs.
Note the restricted times are different to the first one you
passed.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/eH7BgAZ99WA6GWEX6
So the inference is that passing from one zone to another just
requires an entry sign, there is no need for an exit sign as
that is obvious.
And here, just before Park Avenue, are the CPZ entry signs for
CPZ 'MW'
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6qWohtW22ixBx4af6
If you look on the back of the sign, you'll see the entry signs
for the CPZ you've just left. However, tootling along you get to
Walm Lane, (a right turn). If you turn the GSV view around,
you'll see signs for entering CPZ 'MW'
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/SEsH7qfNzY5Hmd4cA
So you would expect on the other side of these, a "Zone Ends"
sign, or a sign for entering another CPZ. But there is no sign.
A look at a parking bay sign on t he left, shortly after passing
Walm Lane tells you you are in CPZ 'MA' but there is no CPZ
entry sign.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/MZuKz5inJLct7nxx5
So, assuming GSV October 2022 is still correct, you have an
appeal argument that you did not pass a CPZ entry sign for the
zone shown on your PCN. Each CPZ can have different restricted
times as shown above, so without passing a sign, how could you
determine the restricted hours ?
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