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#Post#: 23937--------------------------------------------------
Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: DavidJP
Date: May 26, 2024, 1:56 pm
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It appears one of my children has borrowed my car - neglected to
pay for a ticket - failed to confess and now I've received a
Notice to Owner. I'm still trying to identify who it was.
The evidence suggests the driver failed to pay for a ticket.
I've also now missed out the opportunity for a discounted fine
given the driver has failed to tell me about their indiscretion!
Is there any point in arguing this or asking for a discounted
fine? Think I will need to pay up and perhaps have a strong word
with the kids about being truthful and mindful!
Any help is gratefully received :
HTML https://i.imgur.com/cgRbqjI.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/EKbsb0Q.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/i2jqOYM.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/EPvAgds.jpeg
#Post#: 24155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 4:38 pm
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[member=1653]DavidJP[/member] let's start again, unfortunately
the information you were given only relates to roadside PCNs and
what you have is a notice to owner.
The starting point is that the council's photos do not show a
contravention, so as things stand there's no case to answer (but
you don't want to tell them that!)
Please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and re-post the notice to owner with the number plate and pcn
number visible, so we can carry out some basic checks.
Please post a link to the exact location on google street view
(see the instructions in the guide linked above), also how many
of your children are insured to drive the car?
In the meantime I'll get hold of the parking places order.
#Post#: 24329--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: DavidJP
Date: May 28, 2024, 7:37 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1653]DavidJP[/member] let's start again, unfortunately
the information you were given only relates to roadside PCNs and
what you have is a notice to owner.
>
> The starting point is that the council's photos do not show a
contravention, so as things stand there's no case to answer (but
you don't want to tell them that!)
>
> Please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and re-post the notice to owner with the number plate and pcn
number visible, so we can carry out some basic checks.
>
> Please post a link to the exact location on google street view
(see the instructions in the guide linked above), also how many
of your children are insured to drive the car?
>
> In the meantime I'll get hold of the parking places order.
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks for the prompt response. We have 3 total individuals
insured on the vehicle.
Please find below unredacted Notice to Owner.
Here is the GSV location : Grove Car Park
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5062104,-0.5880282,3a,75y,3.02h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7dMcusLGBMI5at9I6wc-eg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
HTML https://i.imgur.com/AUqSLMT.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/JLlXiBH.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/b4QS3DA.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/e8vJc8S.jpeg
#Post#: 24332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: JoCo
Date: May 29, 2024, 2:59 am
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I'd be a bit reluctant to let any of your kids drive the car in
future. Or get them to pay any penalty between themselves first.
That might help with their memory or truthfulness!
But stick with it here. CP has a habit of finding ways to avoid
payment!
#Post#: 24340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 29, 2024, 5:26 am
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Photos aren't mandatory but in any event the council's online
photo evidence shows the car park noticeboard with clear Ts and
Cs. The adjudicator would need to reassure themselves that the
car was indeed in the stated car park (because the car and sign
aren't together in the same shot) and then on this point the
council's case would IMO be proved.
However, there's no reference to paying by phone on the
noticeboard whereas online states the following:
The Grove Car Park
Pay and display (coins or cards accepted) or cashless parking
using RingGo
If this is correct then IMO the contravention is incorrect
because display is not a mandatory condition, simply an option.
The grounds which cover P&D and cashless parking are:
Parked without payment of the parking charge
#Post#: 24357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: DavidJP
Date: May 29, 2024, 8:15 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Photos aren't mandatory but in any event the council's online
photo evidence shows the car park noticeboard with clear Ts and
Cs. The adjudicator would need to reassure themselves that the
car was indeed in the stated car park (because the car and sign
aren't together in the same shot) and then on this point the
council's case would IMO be proved.
>
> However, there's no reference to paying by phone on the
noticeboard whereas online states the following:
>
> The Grove Car Park
>
> Pay and display (coins or cards accepted) or cashless parking
using RingGo
>
> If this is correct then IMO the contravention is incorrect
because display is not a mandatory condition, simply an option.
The grounds which cover P&D and cashless parking are:
>
> Parked without payment of the parking charge
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks - what is the view on the following appeal draft?
Dear Sir/Madam,
I'd like to challenge the PCN on the basis that the
contravention did not occur.
The PCN issued states the contravention as "Parked in a car park
without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket or
voucher or parking clock." However, according to the online
information provided by Slough Borough Council, The Grove Car
Park allows for both pay and display (using coins or cards) and
cashless parking via the RingGo service.
The car park noticeboard, as shown in the council's online photo
evidence, does not mention the option to pay by phone, whereas
the online information clearly states:
**The Grove Car Park**
- Pay and display (coins or cards accepted)
- Cashless parking using RingGo
Since the car park supports cashless parking, displaying a pay
and display ticket is not a mandatory requirement but merely one
of the payment options available. Therefore, the contravention
should be "Parked without payment of the parking charge," which
is fundamentally different from the one cited in the PCN.
I kindly request the cancellation of the PCN on the grounds that
the contravention cited does not accurately reflect the terms
and conditions of parking at The Grove Car Park. The
availability of multiple payment methods, including cashless
options, renders the requirement to display a ticket optional
rather than mandatory.
#Post#: 24609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: DavidJP
Date: May 31, 2024, 4:15 pm
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Hello,
Just wondering if there was a view on my draft appeal? Thank you
in advance.
#Post#: 24833--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 3, 2024, 12:12 pm
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Here is The Borough of Slough Off-Street Parking Places
(Consolidation) Order 2017
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PycacEnskm7rbByEU58rPAMl0kbGpwav/view.
Here is a revised draft:
[indent]
Dear Slough Borough Council,
I'd like to challenge the PCN on the basis that the
contravention did not occur.
The PCN issued states the contravention as "Parked in a car park
without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket or
voucher or parking clock", however this car park has cashless
parking and the contravention is therefore meaningless, I refer
you to LINK1
In the circumstances a contravention that might have been
alleged could have been "Parked without payment of the parking
charge," which is fundamentally different from the one cited in
the PCN.
In light of the above the penalty charge must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
I will PM you a link to put in the representation, it will
redirect to Lydia Russo v Plymouth City Council (PL00004-2401,
12 March 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WW83Desv43qE8aviq2wez1KRsivNCqME/view<br
/>but if you give them the link I'll PM you, we can use the
click
count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously
do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to
remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove
they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in
the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've
got them for lying as well.
Make sure to send the representation online via the council
website and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
#Post#: 29425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: DavidJP
Date: July 10, 2024, 12:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Here is The Borough of Slough Off-Street Parking Places
(Consolidation) Order 2017
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PycacEnskm7rbByEU58rPAMl0kbGpwav/view.
>
> Here is a revised draft:
>
> [indent]
> Dear Slough Borough Council,
>
> I'd like to challenge the PCN on the basis that the
contravention did not occur.
>
> The PCN issued states the contravention as "Parked in a car
park without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
or voucher or parking clock", however this car park has cashless
parking and the contravention is therefore meaningless, I refer
you to LINK1
>
> In the circumstances a contravention that might have been
alleged could have been "Parked without payment of the parking
charge," which is fundamentally different from the one cited in
the PCN.
>
> In light of the above the penalty charge must be cancelled.
>
> Yours faithfully,
> [/indent]
>
>
> I will PM you a link to put in the representation, it will
redirect to Lydia Russo v Plymouth City Council (PL00004-2401,
12 March 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WW83Desv43qE8aviq2wez1KRsivNCqME/view<br
/>but if you give them the link I'll PM you, we can use the
click
count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously
do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to
remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove
they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in
the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've
got them for lying as well.
>
> Make sure to send the representation online via the council
website and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
>
--- End Quote ---
Regrettably I have received a notice of rejection from 19th
June. Unfortunately it was stuck in my junk/spam folder.
Grateful for any further advice. Interesting to see their claim
of being unable to see the link we provided.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kc0agcL.jpeg
#Post#: 29429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked without parking displaying a ticket - PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 10, 2024, 1:15 pm
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Well at this point you might as well appeal as you have nothing
to lose (the penalty stays the same if the appeal is
unsuccesful).
I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
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