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       #Post#: 23774--------------------------------------------------
       Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: blackknight
       Date: May 24, 2024, 9:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello all.
       I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central
       Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.
       Today I received three PCNs alleging the breach of the CAZ on
       these days. Strange when I recall paying for the days.
       I checked my email and I found one saying that :
       “ Your payment to Drive in a clean air zone has expired.
       The charge for your journey is not paid. You may receive a
       penalty charge notice (PCN) if payment is not made before
       11:59pm on the sixth day after you drove in.
       Clean air zone: Birmingham”
       What does this mean?
       #Post#: 23778--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: May 24, 2024, 10:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central
       Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.
       --- End Quote ---
       Do Birmingham allow payment in advance? I am wondering if the
       payments were treated as payment for the day the payment was
       made?
       What sort of paper trail have you got for the payments? Is there
       an online record or receipt?
       Have a read of
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
       and please post up the first page of each PCN and the other
       sides of one PCN.
       Only redact name and address.
       #Post#: 23783--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: blackknight
       Date: May 24, 2024, 11:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [img]
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/kdLlyJC[/img]
       #Post#: 23809--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 24, 2024, 1:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Rules for payment are here :-
  HTML https://www.brumbreathes.co.uk/info/32/charges-operation/34/paying-drive-clean-air-zone
       Basically, you can only pay 6 days in advance and 6 days in
       arrears. However, the Order is silent on what happens if moneys
       are paid but not used. I suspect they have just made the no
       refund rule up and are not in compliance with the legislation
       but you'll only find out if you take them to adjudication. The
       legislation is the Transport Act 2000 see here for the relevant
       section:-
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/38/part/III/chapter/I
       and the regulations for PCN enforcement are here :-
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made
       I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about
       the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem
       quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used
       "on the day".
       As far as I can see, the email told you that your payment for
       road use had expired, being beyond 13 days since payment was
       made. It then warned you to make a payment for your car or you'd
       get a PCN.
       #Post#: 23839--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: mdann52
       Date: May 25, 2024, 3:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about
       the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem
       quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used
       "on the day".
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given
       day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able
       to get it back.
       The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
       #Post#: 23847--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 25, 2024, 4:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: mdann52 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=1999.msg23809#msg23809
       date=1716575818]
       > I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about
       the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem
       quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used
       "on the day".
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given
       day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able
       to get it back.
       The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
       [/quote]
       But when you pay in advance, I don't think any date is required.
       #Post#: 24098--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 27, 2024, 2:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: blackknight link ---
       >
       > Hello all.
       >
       > I made a credit card payment to cover three visits to central
       Birmingham over consecutive days at the beginning of May.
       >
       > Today I received three PCNs alleging the breach of the CAZ on
       these days. Strange when I recall paying for the days.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       [member=1837]blackknight[/member] so when did you make these
       payments, and what were the dates of your visits?
       In any event please upload the PCN, following the guidance here
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/.
       #Post#: 24200--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: mdann52
       Date: May 28, 2024, 3:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote author=mdann52 link=topic=1999.msg23839#msg23839
       date=1716626934]
       > [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=1999.msg23809#msg23809
       date=1716575818]
       > I have had a quick look and there is nothing in the Act about
       the management of payments for road user charges. It does seem
       quite unfair the way they deal with payments that are not used
       "on the day".
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I thought you were buying, in effect, a "licence" for a given
       day, so I wouldn't expect if you don't use it you would be able
       to get it back.
       The regs are definitely silent on refunds!
       [/quote]
       But when you pay in advance, I don't think any date is required.
       [/quote]
       I've just checked, and if you pay on the UK GOV site you are
       required to select date(s) even in advance
       #Post#: 24212--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 28, 2024, 4:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OK, so I now suggest you give us the exact details of when you
       booked the CAZ fees, and the dates of using them. It could be
       their system is flawed.
       #Post#: 24523--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Birmingham CC CAZ PCN after paying 
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 30, 2024, 6:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=2]mdann52[/member] please show us the PCN and the
       payment receipts.
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