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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 23371--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: 666
Date: May 21, 2024, 6:20 am
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OP, you said "i was caught speeding". Was this by a camera, or
were you stopped by a police officer?
#Post#: 23376--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: RichardW
Date: May 21, 2024, 6:39 am
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That's a non barcode stamp, and by that date they were required
(
HTML https://www.royalmail.com/sending/barcoded-stamps)
In which
case the SCU has probably refused to pay the postage / surcharge
RM would have asked for.
#Post#: 23399--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: Theclaw
Date: May 21, 2024, 8:23 am
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Aww No i didn't even realise with all that's going on with my
mother i never send letters anymore that was the first and last
i've sent in years. They say on the SJPN they sent a reminder
but i never received that plus why did it take so long to send
back. Could you please advise what my best course of action will
now be please i really cannot afford the costs or all the points
on my licence. i have to fill in the SJPN by the deadline
tomorrow
#Post#: 23406--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 21, 2024, 8:47 am
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You have shown us 2 envelopes. One is addressed by hand to the
SCU, has a postage stamp, has been franked and has a sticker
with returned ticked on it.
The other envelope has first class printed on the top right
corner and seemingly has no address on it.
The first envelope seems quite self explanatory, beyond the
questions of how/why it was refused and its resultant status in
law (whether as a matter of law it was served or not served).
The second envelope, not so much.
#Post#: 23440--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: May 21, 2024, 2:56 pm
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> You have shown us 2 envelopes. One is addressed by hand to the
SCU, has a postage stamp, has been franked and has a sticker
with returned ticked on it.
> The other envelope has first class printed on the top right
corner and seemingly has no address on it.
>
> The first envelope seems quite self explanatory, beyond the
questions of how/why it was refused and its resultant status in
law (whether as a matter of law it was served or not served).
>
> The second envelope, not so much.
>
--- End Quote ---
That postage stamp wasn't valid when it was posted(?). See
[member=885]RichardW[/member]'s post.
#Post#: 23443--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: May 21, 2024, 3:35 pm
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--- Quote from: Theclaw link ---
> i really cannot afford the costs or all the points on my
licence. i have to fill in the SJPN by the deadline tomorrow
>
--- End Quote ---
I’ve laid out how to do it and why, is there anything you didn’t
understand in that advice?
#Post#: 23445--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: RichardW
Date: May 21, 2024, 3:53 pm
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You should be able to do the plea bargain - plead not guilty to
BOTH charges, in the mitigation put that you will plead to
guilty to the speeding IF they drop the Failure to ID. You could
also put in a request that they sentence at the fixed penalty
rate, since you did try to respond (not strictly an admin error
beyond your control, but nothing to lose trying).
#Post#: 23446--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 21, 2024, 4:00 pm
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My bad - assumed that the comment referred to the other
envelope.
In that case, assuming that Royal Mail's refusal to honour
non-barcoded stamps is lawful, it would appear that the OP
failed to provide the information, by dint of using a stamp
which Royal Mail had decided to expire.
As a general rule, we don't tell the OP what he should do - we
advise him of the options open to him and the pros and cons
thereof.
He can try to defend the s. 172, or he can ask for a plea deal.
For the former, plead not guilty to both.
For the latter, plead not guilty to both, but put in the
mitigation section that he would be prepared to plead guilty to
the speeding if the s. 172 charge was dropped. Conventional
wisdom regarding the plea deal is that it had to be done by
asking the prosecutor nicely on the day of the trial. Since the
pandemic, the court system appears to have become more proactive
in disposing of such cases without having to have the great
unwashed in their courtrooms.
The next issue is whether the OP has a defence. There is a
statutory defence if it was not reasonably practicable to
provide the information. This would seem to depend largely on
whether the court finds that the OP ought to have known or had
reason to suspect that that the stamp was no longer valid. As
the change was news to me, I have every sympathy for him in this
regard, but I'm not a magistrate and won't be sat on his bench
if it goes to trial.
Broadly speaking, if the OP has no reason to suspect that the
notice has not been delivered, there is no reason for him to
resend the information. However, if he does have reason, such as
receiving a reminder, or a returned response, then the defence
would not apply as it would be reasonably practicable for him to
provide the information by re-sending it. AIUI, when court
proceedings have been instigated it is too late to comply with
the requirement.
The returned s. 172 response being delivered a day before the
SJPN ought not in my opinion to be an issue. The fact that the
SCU claim to have sent a reminder is a greater concern. Unless
the OP can persuade the court on the balance of probabilities
that he did not receive any reminder, any reasonably
practicability defence would seem to be sunk. If he can, then it
would seem to have legs.
#Post#: 23475--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: tonys
Date: May 22, 2024, 12:49 am
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--- Quote from: Theclaw link ---
>
> Could you please advise what my best course of action will now
be please i really cannot afford the costs or all the points on
my licence. i have to fill in the SJPN by the deadline tomorrow
>
--- End Quote ---
Plead not guilty to both charges in the first instance. In court
offer to plead guilty to speeding if the other charge is
dropped.
#Post#: 23492--------------------------------------------------
Re: UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been
returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?
DIR By: BertB
Date: May 22, 2024, 4:18 am
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--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> OP, you said "i was caught speeding". Was this by a camera, or
were you stopped by a police officer?
>
--- End Quote ---
Literally mentions it in the same sentence
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