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#Post#: 23133--------------------------------------------------
Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: John_S
Date: May 20, 2024, 2:54 am
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The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003
provides a framework for enforcement authorities in London to
issue PCNs for moving traffic contraventions. Parts of this Act
are earmarked for repeal in the Traffic Management Act 2004. The
2004 Act also sets-out a framework for enforcement authorities
(including those in London I believe) to issue PCNs. The 2004
Act provides a slightly different definition of moving traffic
contravention to the 2003 Act – the 2003 Act appearing to
capture a wider range of traffic signs.
Where a PCN has been issued in London under the 2003 Act, does
the 2004 Act also apply?
My understanding is that the 2003 Act takes precedence here, but
that doesn’t explain why there appears to be two definitions of
moving traffic contravention running concurrently. Is anyone
able to explain this please?
Thanks in anticipation.
#Post#: 23136--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2024, 3:27 am
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The Traffic Management Act 2004 is only used for parking
offences in London, and the LLA & TfL Act 2003 is used for
moving traffic offences. So far, the government have not forced
London to transfer over to the later TMA 2004. It is only
recently that the government has moved councils outside London
onto the TMA 2004, for bus lane offences.
If you look at the regulations that apply to the TMA 2004,
you'll see that they specifically exclude London.
Here is Regulation 1
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/1/made
The London authorities love having their own Act because they
can set the PCN penalties. These are about double the rest of
the country. If you look at their Act, the Secretary of State
can object to the chosen PCN penalties, but as far as I know,
has never done so.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/11/enacted
Basically, it is a Dog's Breakfast !
#Post#: 23152--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 20, 2024, 4:44 am
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[member=1715]John_S[/member] you need to read the guidance here
please:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
You also said on the facebook group that you've got a notice of
rejection from Merton, so please show us.
As for your question, the simple answer is that the provisions
of the 2004 Act have not been brought into force in London, so
in London the 2003 Act applies, outside London moving traffic is
dealt with by the 2004 Act.
#Post#: 23158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: John_S
Date: May 20, 2024, 5:34 am
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Thanks for the prompt replies. To put this in context, I was
half way through dealing with a PCN when I came across this site
- hence I didn’t post the original PCN. I am happy to do so
retrospectively if you wish. The PCN is essentially identical
(same location) to the one posted by John Barrow recently on the
Facebook Group.
At the location (Cambridge Road) Merton have used ‘special
authorisation’ road signs, so they are not listed in the TMA
2004.
So my real question is: can ‘special authorisation’ signs be
used for moving traffic contraventions under the 2003 Act?
#Post#: 23190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: Neil B
Date: May 20, 2024, 9:51 am
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--- Quote from: John_S link ---
>
> So my real question is: can ‘special authorisation’ signs be
used for moving traffic contraventions under the 2003 Act?
--- End Quote ---
You keep asking questions but still show us nothing?
IIRC John Barrow had a pcn that was served out of time.
#Post#: 23210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 20, 2024, 11:01 am
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OP, the Traffic Management Act is enabling legislation and any
analysis needs to start at one of the last sections, not the
first!
In this case, s99:
Commencement, transitionals and savings
(1)The preceding provisions of this Act shall come into force on
such day as the Secretary of State (as respects England) or the
National Assembly for Wales (as respects Wales) may appoint by
order made by statutory instrument.
(2)Different days may be appointed for different purposes.
(3)For the purposes of Part 6 (civil enforcement of road traffic
contraventions), and related repeals, different days may be
appointed for different areas.
(4)The Secretary of State (as respects England) or the National
Assembly for Wales (as respects Wales) may by order made by
statutory instrument make transitional provision or savings in
connection with the coming into force of any provision of this
Act.
You then need to go to 'legislation.gov' and see which statutory
instruments have been made and which sections of the Act have
been brought into effect and when.
This is the latest I found:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/649/earlier-orders/made
The LLA 2003 is lined up for repeal in Schedule 12 to TMA, but
that part has not been brought into effect through a
Commencement Order.
#Post#: 23229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 20, 2024, 1:00 pm
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--- Quote from: John_S link ---
>
> At the location (Cambridge Road) Merton have used ‘special
authorisation’ road signs, so they are not listed in the TMA
2004.
>
> So my real question is: can ‘special authorisation’ signs be
used for moving traffic contraventions under the 2003 Act?
>
--- End Quote ---
No signs or special authorisations exist under either Act,
you're quoting the wrong legislation. Signs are dealt with by
section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/64
and by
the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents/made.
You've posted the NoR on facebook so here it is:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/dPCjhSr.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/qPSntWp.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/nlM7wNd.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/pSGtKgR.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wKDQ4q1.png
Please show us the PCN as well and then we can investigate this
properly.
Please read the guidance here explaining what you should and
shouldn't redact, and how to post images properly:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
#Post#: 23338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: John_S
Date: May 21, 2024, 4:10 am
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Thanks. For completeness I’ve posted the PCN and a photo of the
relevant signage.
The main question here may have been misunderstood. The signage
at this location comprises (on the near-side of the road) a post
with three separate signs:
1. School Streets
2. No motor vehicles
3. School Term Time
1 and 3 are non-compliant; 2 is a ‘special authorisation’ under
s64 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
Re sign 2: s73 and Sch7 of 2004 Act
(
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/73
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/73)<br
/>specifies signs that can be used to create a ‘moving traffic
contravention’. The 2004 Act doesn’t mention ‘special
authorisations’ so if this were outside London, although sign 2
is compliant - I do not believe the PCN would stand as the sign
falls outside the scope of the 2004 Act. Correct?
Section 73 commenced in England in 2007:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/2053/made
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/2053/made
But this is inside London and the 2003 Act applies. So for peace
of mind, I would like to find:
(a) in which order/regs London is excluded from s73 2004 Act (if
at all)? and
(b) whether there are any other orders/regs that exclude
‘special authorisations’ under the 2003 Act? and if not
(c) whether there are any limitations at all on traffic signs to
be used for moving traffic contraventions in London?
Any further comments would be greatly appreciated, particularly
regarding the wording on the PCN and NoR.
HTML [img]http://<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en"
data-id="a/LrddMMQ" data-context="false" ><a
href="//imgur.com/a/LrddMMQ"></a></blockquote><script async
src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/img]
#Post#: 23341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: John_S
Date: May 21, 2024, 4:20 am
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Having difficulty with images on imgur... hope this works...
HTML https://i.imgur.com/lye7jFP.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/RFYuyyf.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/O7PvpSv.jpeg
#Post#: 24009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moving Traffic Contraventions in London
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 9:22 am
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Here's the video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfCqmR9guHY
[member=1715]John_S[/member] this case can be argued on the same
grounds as Conor Costelloe v London Borough of Merton
(2240078999, 23 March 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X_ea7Dwibaj2KJR2WhZdV3it0D7q9jt0/view.
The council sought a review that was refused, see London Borough
of Merton v Conor Costelloe (2240078999, 5 April 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vGFfHiu9RXLjwI6bH2UwQ1O6H8D5J2Qv/view
Of course all appeals carry an element of risk, but as the
discount has expired you have nothing to lose at this point. I
will drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.
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