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#Post#: 22981--------------------------------------------------
2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Fr3ddi3
Date: May 18, 2024, 9:54 am
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I have received a NIP for the alleged offence of travelling at
37mph in a 30mph zone at 16:31 and 9 seconds on 6th May 2024.
The photograph for this shows the vehcile travelling towards the
camera.
I have received a further NIP for the alleged offence of
travelling at 45mph in a 30 mph zone at 16:31 and 58 seconds on
6th May 2024. The photograph for this shows the vehicle
travelling away from the camera.
The location was on the A21 at John Cross (just north of
Hastings). We can not identify the exact location. (It was a
mobile camera, not fixed). The online NIP refers to this website
for identifying the location of the Camera.
HTML https://ssrp.shinyapps.io/dataportal/
I can see Site ID 1158 in
John Cross, but no sign of Site 686 referenced in this case.
I understand that it should be a single offence, so long as the
driver didn't reduce speed below 30mph. The driver doesn't have
any reason to believe that this is the case, and no evidence has
been offered to suggest that this is the case.
However some quick maths shows something appears amiss.
Photo 1 was taken at a distance of 94.6 metres. Photo 2 was
taken at a distance of 91.0 metres. Add on 5 metres (estimate)
for the length of the vehicle and a total of 190.6 metres was
travelled in 49 seconds. This converts to an average speed (if
my maths is right) of under 9mph. (Different cameras with
unsyncronised times?)
My layman thoughts are for the driver to deal with and pay the
37mph (Band A) offence as fast as possible, and for the 45mph
(Band B) offence to be delayed and then appealed as settled when
the 37mph offence was dealt with and the driver can't be
reprosecuted for the same crime. However all feedback welcomed.
For full disclosure, the driver has no penalty points on their
licence currently, however has already completed a speed
awareness course within the last 3 years.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 22983--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: May 18, 2024, 10:31 am
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--- Quote ---
> My layman thoughts are for the driver to deal with and pay the
37mph (Band A) offence as fast as possible, and for the 45mph
(Band B) offence to be delayed and then appealed as settled when
the 37mph offence was dealt with and the driver can't be
reprosecuted for the same crime. However all feedback welcomed.
--- End Quote ---
Both those speeds are low enough for a fixed penalty to be
offered (£100 and 3 points). The "Bands" you refer to only come
into play if you are sentenced in court.
Regardless of any issues you have with the allegations, you must
respond to both the "Requests for Driver's Details". Before you
do this You could try a bemused phone call to the ticket office
explaining your confusion and ask if they can shed any light on
the matter (though do not delay your responses beyond the 28
days you have to reply). Otherwise, include a letter with your
responses asking for clarification.
#Post#: 22984--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 18, 2024, 10:38 am
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Did the driver turn around in between the captures?
#Post#: 22985--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 18, 2024, 10:44 am
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Officer number and site number are the same for both - on the
face if it the same camera (operator).
The speed and distance are not "live" but are calculated over
~0.3seconds and then overlaid onto the video for a short time.
As there is no timeout indicator showing, the short time(s) are
trivial compared the the apparent 49 seconds from first to
second ping.
The hedge/vegetation behind the car in both photos looks
similar. My money is on the camera being close to and facing
away from the roundabout, and the driver using the roundabout to
double back on himself. Assuming an average speed of 40mph (and
a clear roundabout, that would put the van somewhere within 300m
of the roundabout
#Post#: 22987--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Fr3ddi3
Date: May 18, 2024, 10:52 am
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The driver was travelling southbound and did not travel back on
themselves.
#Post#: 22990--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Fr3ddi3
Date: May 18, 2024, 11:09 am
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--- Quote from: Fr3ddi3 link ---
>
> The driver was travelling southbound and did not travel back
on themselves.
>
--- End Quote ---
Actually, that might not be accurate.
For clarity, I am neither the registered keeper, nor the driver,
but posting on their behalf.
The driver was adament that there was no way he travelled back
on himself around the roundabout. I added the part of travelling
southbound, thinking that's was the direction, but knowing where
he was travelling from and where he was travelling to, it makes
sense that he was on the A21, but not that he was as far south
as John Cross. I need to ask the driver more questions, but
unfortunately he isn't available for the next few hours.
#Post#: 23025--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 18, 2024, 6:59 pm
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--- Quote from: Fr3ddi3 link ---
>
> For clarity, I am neither the registered keeper, nor the
driver, but posting on their behalf.
>
--- End Quote ---
Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!
#Post#: 23029--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Fr3ddi3
Date: May 19, 2024, 2:55 am
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The driver remains adament that they did not go round the
roundabout and return the way they came.
However the passenger has a clearer memory of the journey and
says that they travelled south down the A21 to the roundabout,
but their exit was closed, so they went round the roundabout and
returned north down the A21.
It seems clear to me that the driver is mistaken.
Where do we stand, assuming the passenger is correct and the
driver is incorrect? We have 2 legitimately issued NIP is 49
seconds that both need to be accepted and dealt with properly?
#Post#: 23030--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: May 19, 2024, 4:54 am
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--- Quote ---
> We have 2 legitimately issued NIP is 49 seconds that both need
to be accepted and dealt with properly?
--- End Quote ---
It isn't a question of "accepting" anything as there is nothing
to accept. Both of the accompanying "Requests for Driver's
Details" must be responded to, naming the driver. The driver
could ask the police to consider the two as a single offence
but, if they really did turn round, I doubt very much they will
do that.
A course should be offered for the 37mph offence and a fixed
penalty (£100 and 3 points) for the other.
#Post#: 23034--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 x NIP in 49 seconds - A21 John Cross Sussex
DIR By: Fr3ddi3
Date: May 19, 2024, 5:24 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]We have 2 legitimately issued NIP is 49 seconds that
both need to be accepted and dealt with properly?
--- End Quote ---
It isn't a question of "accepting" anything as there is nothing
to accept. Both of the accompanying "Requests for Driver's
Details" must be responded to, naming the driver. The driver
could ask the police to consider the two as a single offence
but, if they really did turn round, I doubt very much they will
do that.
A course should be offered for the 37mph offence and a fixed
penalty (£100 and 3 points) for the other.
[/quote]
I have completed both NIP and posted them. I have also requested
that they be considered as a single offence.
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