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#Post#: 1232--------------------------------------------------
Two identical offences one day apart but received in the post on
the same day
DIR By: iamthewalrus
Date: July 13, 2023, 10:50 am
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I received two NIPs today, each for a speeding offence, each
from the same camera but one day apart. For clarity it's a speed
trap on the way into Brighton on the A270 where the speed drops
from 40 to 30 going downhill on a wide dual carriageway. On
Saturday I was photographed doing 41mph, on Sunday 38mph.
My thoughts are that the point of a NIP is to educate the driver
- to inform them that this is an area where one is likely to
exceed the speed limit and to deter them from doing so in the
future. Indeed I will be more careful on that road next time.
But it seems that the delay between being unknowingly
photographed and being informed you've committed an offence, in
this instance 5 days, is unfair. Were I made aware immediately
that I'd committed an offence I certainly wouldn't have done the
same thing the next day.
Does anyone think I have a case?
#Post#: 1236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:04 pm
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You do not have a case. We sometimes try the "legitimate
expectation" argument for council PCNs, with some occasional
success, but it has been specifically held that "legitimate
expectation" cannot apply to criminal offences.
Your best bet is to take a driver education course for the first
one and a fixed penalty for the second one, assuming you are
eligible and are offered these options.
For what it's worth, "going downhill on a wide dual carriageway"
is not really mitigation, it could be seen as aggravating: it
could mean that you think speeding is OK in those circumstances,
or that you are unable to control your vehicle properly when
driving downhill.
Are there any issues with the signage?
#Post#: 1237--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:05 pm
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No.
#Post#: 1239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:29 pm
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--- Quote from: iamthewalrus link ---
>
> My thoughts are that the point of a NIP is to educate the
driver - to inform them that this is an area where one is likely
to exceed the speed limit and to deter them from doing so in the
future.
>
--- End Quote ---
The purpose of an NIP is to inform the recipient that the police
intend to prosecute the driver for the offence specified in it.
No more, no less. So, I too don’t believe you have a case.
#Post#: 1240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: iamthewalrus
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:30 pm
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There isn't a problem with the signage, no. And agreed that the
wide dual carriageway and downhill issue isn't relevant.
I suppose I'm still hopeful that there's a case for my not being
made aware of the offence soon enough to learn from it, and thus
committing exactly the same offence the following day. I suppose
my perhaps naive hope is that if could in some way argue that if
the point of being fined and given points is to teach the driver
to behave better as opposed to punish them, then the delay in
letting the driver know they've committed an offence and then
receiving another NIP in the window between unwittingly
committing the offence and being informed you've done, is
unfair.
#Post#: 1241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:32 pm
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As you’ve been told - no.
I have heard of the police cancelling a later NIP for the
reasons you state but if they choose not to then it amounts to
no defence in law.
The purpose of a fine is punishment - rehabilitation doesn’t
really come into it.
#Post#: 1243--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: iamthewalrus
Date: July 13, 2023, 12:39 pm
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So not worth going to court for, but perhaps no harm in writing
a letter when I get my further letters from them telling me of
the fine/points etc would you think?
#Post#: 1276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: Weasel
Date: July 14, 2023, 1:26 am
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If you are to have any chance of getting one of these dropped
then I would suggest when you reply to the S172 requests, you
send them together in a single envelope with a brief
accompanying "Begging letter" requesting that one of them is
cancelled. I have heard tale of this approach working, but I
would not bet the farm on it and if this approach is
unsuccessful, you will just have to take it on the chin
#Post#: 1284--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: iamthewalrus
Date: July 14, 2023, 5:33 am
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Is the S172 request the 'next stage' as it were? I've sent the
initial letters back via email (was told this was ok when I
telephoned - photographs of both sides) and they were sent
together in the same email. Perhaps I should put them in the
post too?
#Post#: 1319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two identical offences one day apart but received in the
post on the same day
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 14, 2023, 11:49 am
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I would assume you've already had the Section 172 requests (they
are sent with the NIP - often on the same piece of paper).
You should beware of responding by e-mail. Most forces require a
signed "wet" copy to be sent by post (although they will allow
the nomination of somebody else by e-mail).
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