DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 1783--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: P.Parker
Date: July 22, 2023, 4:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's my draft submission. Please advise if you think of any
other grounds. Thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I entered the box from the right lane at 15:28:40, confident
that the way ahead was clear, As I began to move to the left
lane I had a sight line of the left lane flowing easily around
the corner ahead, where the A3 rounds a bend and leaves the
South Circular to continue straight. No sooner had I moved into
the left lane than a car in the right lane ahead of me made a
sudden lane switch, perhaps upon realising they were in the
wrong lane. The sudden move caused the security truck ahead of
me to perform an emergency stop to avoid an accident. The
after-effects of the emergency stop can be seen in the video as
it causes the security truck to rock back and forth several
times, following its suspension being heavily compressed during
sudden hard braking. The car behind this truck was also forced
to make a sudden stop, as was I, causing me to become briefly
stuck, halfway inside the left side of the box.
When entering the box, I very reasonably anticipated my exit
ahead would be clear. Reasonable anticipation of the behaviour
of other road users is a fundamental pillar of safe motoring, a
lesson drummed into every learner driver, yet we all know that
no matter how carefully one drives, and however reasonably one
anticipates the behaviour of other road users, there is always a
risk that another road user will do something sudden, dangerous
and entirely unexpected, with little or no regard for their
fellow road users.
I contend that there was no contravention, as when I entered the
box I had every reason to expect my exit from the box to be
clear of any obstacle. I cannot be held responsible for the
behaviour of other road users.
I further contend that the contravention alleged in the PCN
could not have occurred at the time alleged in the PCN.
According to the time-stamped video evidence captured by TFL, I
was leaving the box at 15:29, not entering it, as the PCN
alleges.
#Post#: 1787--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: lexy
Date: July 22, 2023, 10:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The “my exit was clear because I could have switched lanes”
argument isn’t great here. Immediately after the box, the two
lanes split off and go in two different directions.
#Post#: 1788--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: P.Parker
Date: July 23, 2023, 3:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks. I agree, though I think you're referring to my earlier
post. I don't agree that what the road does ahead is relevant.
In this draft submission I've scrapped that argument to focus
instead on the argument that the actions of another road user
caused a sudden stoppage when I was inside the box, trapping me
half inside the box through no fault of my own. My inspiration
came from a paragraph from this page
HTML https://penaltychargenotice.co.uk/moving-traffic-contraventions/contraventions-for-moving-traffic/contravention-code-31/
Specific grounds of appeal for this contravention
1.) It is important to remember that this specific contravention
is not that of causing an obstruction or blocking the yellow
box, it is quite simply “entering a box junction when your exit
is not clear”. It is possible to stop within a yellow box
without committing an offence. For example if at the time you
entered the box the exit was clear but then a lorry cut in front
of you and stopped, forcing you to stop in the yellow box. In
fact the independent adjudicator has upheld appeals against Tfl
and other councils on this point. In one case transport for
London said the vehicle was obstructing the box but because that
is not part of the defined contravention and they did not
produce evidence of the vehicle actually entering the box when
its exit was not clear the appeal against them was upheld
I suspect that argument alone is still not sufficient. The error
in the time of the offence, pointed out by MrChips, seems to be
a much stronger argument. It may seem to be only a small error
but consider the distance a car can travel in just a few
seconds. The offence, if one was committed, had to have occurred
at least 20 seconds earlier, at 15:28:40. The law refers to a
specific moment, ie, at the time of entering the box. The video
shows that I was clearly not committing any offence at the time
stated on the PCN. At 15:28:52 I was forced to stop suddenly at
the far end of the box - that is not an offence. At 15:29:00 I
exited the box.
#Post#: 1817--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 23, 2023, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd be tempted to send something much simpler:
[indent]
Dear Transport for London,
I did not enter any box junction at 3:29 pm, nor did I come to a
halt at 3:29 pm. All that can be established from the video is
that I exited a box junction at 3:29 pm, so the allegation
stated on the PCN did not occur.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
#Post#: 1832--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: P.Parker
Date: July 24, 2023, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> I'd be tempted to send something much simpler:
>
> [indent]
> Dear Transport for London,
>
> I did not enter any box junction at 3:29 pm, nor did I come to
a halt at 3:29 pm. All that can be established from the video is
that I exited a box junction at 3:29 pm, so the allegation
stated on the PCN did not occur.
>
> Yours faithfully,
> [/indent]
>
--- End Quote ---
I like this. I'll submit it and cross my fingers.
I'll let you know how I get on.
My thanks to all those who contributed suggestions or critiques.
#Post#: 1837--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: P.Parker
Date: July 24, 2023, 6:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Submitted online.
What happens next? How long do they typically take to respond
with a decision?
Can I assume the hold is extended until I receive a response?
It's now the 24th of July. my case was on hold for another week
,until the 1st August (presumably extended when I called again
on 17th July to say I hadn't yet received the video). Does that
mean I will still have a week from when I receive their decision
to consider whether to appeal?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Status history
24 July 2023 Email dispatched to: xxxxxxx@gmail.com Subj
Representation receipted
N/A
24 July 2023 On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A
17 July 2023 On Hold: SUS54 - DTES Footage Request (01/08/2023)
N/A
12 July 2023 On Hold: SUS54 - DTES Footage Request (27/07/2023)
N/A
01 July 2023 PCN Batched
N/A
#Post#: 1878--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Code 31 Entering stopping in box junction SW18 West Hill
Fire Station
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 24, 2023, 1:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It can take up to 2 - 3 months to get a response from TFL. Just
check the TFL website once every couple of weeks to see if
there's an update, if you can see that a Notice of Rejection has
been issued you can phone TFL and ask them to email a copy (we
know postal delays are still pretty bad in some areas).
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 2
DIR Previous Page