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#Post#: 52751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: themitsoss
Date: January 10, 2025, 4:31 am
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Thank you all for your responses. Let me address this in two
parts:
1.How I Ended Up with Two Licences
I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely
reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for
technical reasons so I could hand it over to the Greek
authorities. They informed me that they require the original
licence to issue a Greek (EU) licence, regardless of whether the
licence is from the UK, the U.S., China, or any other non-EU
country. This is just the standard process in Greece for
converting third-country licences to EU licences. Importantly,
they explicitly stated that they do not send the handed-over
licence back to the country of origin. For example, if someone
hands over a U.S. licence to get a Greek licence, the U.S.
authorities would never be informed, and the same applies to the
UK. As the UK is no longer part of the EU, the old rule
requiring only one EU licence per person doesn’t apply in this
case. Therefore, no notification of invalidation or revocation
would be sent from Greece to the UK.
2.Assigning Points to the Licence
Setting aside how I ended up with two perfectly valid licenses,
when someone receives a fine, they’re required to provide their
name and their driving licence number. While names like Jonh
Stewart or John Smith might be common and appear thousands of
times, driving licence numbers are unique and serve as the
primary identifier. If I provide my Greek driving licence number
when fined, I would assume that the penalty points would be
loaded onto my Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the
system would treat me as a completely separate individual
holding an EU licence. I could very well be a tourist with the
same name driving in the UK. The EU driving licence has no
connection with any NIN or UK passport! And from their end how
confident would they be to just arbritrarily charge a UK driving
licence with points only from a name match? So in practice I am
very confident that they will never be any link between these 2
driving licences. (For the purpose of this conversation we can
set aside the ethical side of things ;D )
In the unfortunate scenario that I do something stupid again and
end up with a fine I will definitely update you all with the
results of my attempt ;D
#Post#: 52764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: 666
Date: January 10, 2025, 5:21 am
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--- Quote from: themitsoss link ---
>
> Thank you all for your responses. Let me address this in two
parts:
>
> 1.How I Ended Up with Two Licences
> I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely
reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for
technical reasons so I could hand it over to the Greek
authorities.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you are tried for a criminal offence in England or Wales,
there are two possible outcomes - guilty or not guilty.
"Technically" guilty is not an option.
#Post#: 52876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: January 10, 2025, 11:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: themitsoss link ---
>
> I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely
reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for
technical reasons
--- End Quote ---
Oh, well, that’s ok then.
--- Quote ---
> 2.Assigning Points to the Licence
> Setting aside how I ended up with two perfectly valid
licenses, when someone receives a fine, they’re required to
provide their name and their driving licence number. While names
like Jonh Stewart or John Smith might be common and appear
thousands of times, driving licence numbers are unique and serve
as the primary identifier. If I provide my Greek driving licence
number when fined, I would assume that the penalty points would
be loaded onto my Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the
system would treat me as a completely separate individual
holding an EU licence. I could very well be a tourist with the
same name driving in the UK. The EU driving licence has no
connection with any NIN or UK passport! And from their end how
confident would they be to just arbritrarily charge a UK driving
licence with points only from a name match? So in practice I am
very confident that they will never be any link between these 2
driving licences. (For the purpose of this conversation we can
set aside the ethical side of things ;D )
>
> In the unfortunate scenario that I do something stupid again
and end up with a fine I will definitely update you all with the
results of my attempt ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
Clearly you know better than us. You certainly think you do.
#Post#: 53783--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: themitsoss
Date: January 17, 2025, 5:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
>
> Clearly you know better than us. You certainly think you do.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your response, but how about a reasoned
counterargument over a snarky remark? All I’m saying is that,
given the volume of fines police handle, it’s reasonable to
assume they rely primarily on the driver’s name and licence
number, rather than launching a comprehensive detective search
for every matching first and last name. If you believe
otherwise, I’d be interested to know exactly where you think my
reasoning falls short.
#Post#: 53788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 17, 2025, 6:02 am
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Your assumptions are wrong. This can be surmised by the
responses received so far, but that is apparently
unsatisfactory.
#Post#: 53843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 17, 2025, 10:29 am
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--- Quote ---
> I would assume that the penalty points would be loaded onto my
Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the system would
treat me as a completely separate individual holding an EU
licence.
--- End Quote ---
Why do you make those assumptions?
Penalty points are not loaded on to any licence. They are
attributed to a driver's driving record.
And so to this:
--- Quote ---
> ....but if I do get caught, I plan to use my Greek licence so
those points go there, leaving the UK licence at 9 points.
--- End Quote ---
Let's try and make it a little easier to understand. Imagine
that you hold your two licences and commit an offence for which
you are disqualified from driving. You provide the court with
(say) your Greek licence details. Do you think you can continue
driving in the UK, despite a UK court having disqualified you
from doing so, because you hold a GB licence which is "clean"?
You seem to be confusing what you are obliged or allowed to do
with what you think you might get away with.
#Post#: 53887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: nigelbb
Date: January 18, 2025, 3:30 am
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I wonder what the response of the Greek authorities if the
situation were reversed & the OP tried to pull the same stunt in
Greece.
#Post#: 53889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 18, 2025, 4:15 am
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given the OP was clearly trying to educate everyone as opposed
to getting advice. I suggest waiting to see hiw he gets on with
his plan and see if he returns to tell us, truthfully (as, by
his own admission he tells lies)
#Post#: 53958--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: themitsoss
Date: January 18, 2025, 12:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> Let's try and make it a little easier to understand. Imagine
that you hold your two licences and commit an offence for which
you are disqualified from driving. You provide the court with
(say) your Greek licence details. Do you think you can continue
driving in the UK, despite a UK court having disqualified you
from doing so, because you hold a GB licence which is "clean"?
>
> You seem to be confusing what you are obliged or allowed to do
with what you think you might get away with.
>
--- End Quote ---
I completely agree that if a UK court disqualifies me, I must
not drive—no question there. I certainly won't. However, that
scenario isn’t what I’m discussing. My hypothetical is just
different: Let’s assume a UK driving licence already has 3
penalty points, and then I receive a typical speeding ticket
(for instance, another 3 points). Would those points
automatically be applied to my UK licence if I provide details
from my EU licence instead?
Of course, in theory, the authorities could cross-reference
everything and link the two licences. But in practical reality,
given the high volume of daily fines, is it really so
unreasonable to assume they’d rely solely on the unique licence
number and not perform an exhaustive
first-name–last-name–date-of-birth check? That’s the core of my
question here—not whether I could ignore a disqualification
issued by a court.
--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> given the OP was clearly trying to educate everyone as opposed
to getting advice. I suggest waiting to see hiw he gets on with
his plan and see if he returns to tell us, truthfully (as, by
his own admission he tells lies)
>
--- End Quote ---
I wasn’t trying to “educate” anyone; I was simply making a
reasonable assumption about how the police handle fines when
provided with a licence number. If you view my reporting the
licence as lost—purely so I could hand it over to the Greek
authorities and reclaim my rightful EU driving licence—as a
grave wrongdoing, then I’ll deal with that consequence if it
ever arises.
Either way, I would like to thank everyone for your answers. I
appreciate the time you've taken to share your thoughts.
#Post#: 53966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: January 18, 2025, 12:49 pm
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Fraud, an offence of dishonesty, is usually treated pretty
seriously, yes. Bye.
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