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#Post#: 28713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 5, 2024, 4:46 am
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The City of London police would only be guidelines, not what the
law actually says. Much like the Highway Code and advice given
by the DVLA in a lot of their guidelines, it's what the law
actually says that matters.
#Post#: 29963--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: estevenin
Date: July 15, 2024, 6:51 pm
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--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
> The City of London police would only be guidelines, not what
the law actually says. Much like the Highway Code and advice
given by the DVLA in a lot of their guidelines, it's what the
law actually says that matters.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. Just haven't found the law on that topic. They had a law
on double EU/EEA Licence prior to Brexit, but now I think it is
simply a grey area at the moment.
#Post#: 30075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 16, 2024, 12:57 pm
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As may have already been state, the DVLA make a ghost licence
and any points or fines will be put on that ghost licence. UK
law can ban holders of foreign licences from driving in the UK.
That won't affect their ability to drive in their home country
or any other country outside the UK.
#Post#: 30078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 16, 2024, 1:33 pm
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--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
> As may have already been state, the DVLA make a ghost licence
and any points or fines will be put on that ghost licence. UK
law can ban holders of foreign licences from driving in the UK.
That won't affect their ability to drive in their home country
or any other country outside the UK.
>
--- End Quote ---
Unless there’s a reciprocal agreement.
#Post#: 52634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: themitsoss
Date: January 9, 2025, 8:06 am
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--- Quote from: estevenin link ---
>
>
> With all that beeing said, is choosing to disclose your
foreign licence instead of a UK one, when receiving a speed
ticket (without thinking of the reasons why that I mentionned on
the first post), an offence, or is that then a grey area ?
>
--- End Quote ---
I initially obtained my driving licence (car and motorcycle) in
Greece. In 2015, I moved to the UK and exchanged my Greek
licence for a UK one. At that time, the rule was that the
country issuing the new licence had to send the original licence
back to the country of origin. That’s exactly what happened, so
the Greek online driving licence database showed my Greek
licence as revoked (since the UK was in the EU at the time, and
you can only hold one EU licence).
Now, in January 2025, I spoke with the public transport office
in Greece, and they told me that to get a new Greek (EU)
licence, I would have to hand over my UK licence. However, they
also said that because the UK is no longer in the EU, they would
simply keep the UK licence “in an envelope” rather than sending
it back, and thus from what I understand an EU country does not
inform in any way, shape, or form for the handed over driving
licence so the driving licence remains perfectly valid in the
UK.
Back in the UK, I reported my UK licence as lost. This was
because in Greece they required me to hand over a driving
licence in order to reissue a Greek licence. They were unable to
simply reissue my original Greek licence, as they needed to
physically receive a valid licence. That’s the reason I reported
it as lost, allowing me to provide my UK licence to Greece while
still obtaining a replacement in the UK.
So now I ended up with two perfectly valid driving licences—one
from the UK and one from Greece (EU). The reason for doing that
was My UK licence already has 9 points (all from driving 24 mph
in a 20 mph zone—clearly I didn’t learn my lesson :'( ), so I
only have one more chance before a ban.
Hopefully, I won’t be posting here again about another speeding
ticket, but if I do get caught, I plan to use my Greek licence
so those points go there, leaving the UK licence at 9 points. As
estevenin mentioned, I’m not sure if this is technically illegal
or just a grey area—but that’s the route I’m considering.
I know I am technically gaming the system, and if I do get
another speeding ticket, I should pay the consequences. What I
want to ask is: would it be technically legal to fill in my
Greek driving licence if I get another speeding ticket so I load
up that one instead of the UK one?
#Post#: 52647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: January 9, 2025, 9:12 am
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Any points would be applied to your UK driver record, so you
would still be liable for a ban on reaching 12 points.
How was your UK licence stolen and at the same time handed to
the Greek authorities?
#Post#: 52660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: themitsoss
Date: January 9, 2025, 10:36 am
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Thank you for your response! Let me clarify a couple of points:
1. Handing Over My UK Licence in Greece
The Greek authorities required me to hand over a valid driving
licence in order to reissue my Greek (EU) licence. Simply
requesting a reissue of my original Greek licence wasn’t an
option. Since I needed to provide my UK licence to meet their
requirements, I reported it as lost in the UK to ensure I could
still obtain a replacement here while complying with the Greek
process. This was the only way to satisfy their rules.
Importantly, no law is being broken here because the EU rule
allowing only one driving licence across member states no longer
applies in this situation, as the UK is no longer part of the
EU.
2. Accumulating Points on the UK Licence
When you receive a fine, you are required to provide a driving
licence number. If I were to use my Greek (EU) driving licence
number, I don’t see how the points could be applied to my UK
driving licence. Theoretically, the authorities could check
databases for individuals with the same name and date of birth.
However, I would assume the primary method of assigning points
is by using the driving licence number itself, which is unique
to each licence. This means that, practically speaking, the
system would treat me as a completely separate person when using
my Greek licence.
#Post#: 52661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: 666
Date: January 9, 2025, 10:44 am
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--- Quote from: themitsoss link ---
>
> Thank you for your response! Let me clarify a couple of
points:
>
> 1. Handing Over My UK Licence in Greece
> The Greek authorities required me to hand over a valid driving
licence in order to reissue my Greek (EU) licence. Simply
requesting a reissue of my original Greek licence wasn’t an
option. Since I needed to provide my UK licence to meet their
requirements, I reported it as lost in the UK to ensure I could
still obtain a replacement here while complying with the Greek
process. This was the only way to satisfy their rules.
Importantly, no law is being broken here because the EU rule
allowing only one driving licence across member states no longer
applies in this situation, as the UK is no longer part of the
EU.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
That is true, but as part of the final (oven-ready?) Brexit deal
the existing driving licence arrangements remained unchanged.
That means (AIUI) you had to surrender your UK licence to the
Greeks, and you have broken at least one law by falsely
reporting it stolen.
#Post#: 52665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 9, 2025, 11:21 am
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--- Quote ---
> I don’t see how the points could be applied to my UK driving
licence.
--- End Quote ---
You still haven't grasped this.
As southpaw said, penalty points are not applied to your
licence. They are applied to your driving record. You can accrue
UK points no matter what licence you hold or even if you hold no
licence at all.
--- Quote ---
> Importantly, no law is being broken here....
--- End Quote ---
I think the DVLA might see it differently. You declared to them
that your GB licence was lost or stolen. That was a false
declaration because it wasn't lost. You know exactly where it is
(or at least where it was when you handed it over to the Greek
authorities).
The reason you could not obtain a new Greek licence unless you
handed over your GB one is that, for driving licence purposes,
nothing has changed since Brexit. You can only hold one licence
if it is issued by any of the 28 nations (27 EU plus GB). For
the same reason you would no have been granted a GB licence if
you said you held a Greek one.
--- Quote ---
> If I were to use my Greek (EU) driving licence number, I don’t
see how the points could be applied to my UK driving licence.
>
--- End Quote ---
You might get away with that, however, you might not. Since you
made a false declaration to the DVLA you need to tread very
carefully.
#Post#: 52744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
DIR By: nigelbb
Date: January 10, 2025, 3:32 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> The reason you could not obtain a new Greek licence unless you
handed over your GB one is that, for driving licence purposes,
nothing has changed since Brexit. You can only hold one licence
if it is issued by any of the 28 nations (27 EU plus GB). For
the same reason you would no have been granted a GB licence if
you said you held a Greek one.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's got nothing to do with the OP but in fact for driving
licence purposes everything has changed since Brexit.
There never was any necessity to exchange a UK licence for an EU
licence as a UK licence was of course a perfectly valid EU
driving licence. Neither the Withdrawal Agreement nor the Trade
and Cooperation Agreement make any mention of driving licences.
The previous automatic exchange of a UK licence for an EU
licence or vice versa is now no longer possible.
I personally know the situation in France where if a Brit now
takes up residence then provided their UK driving licence was
issued before 31st January 2020 they do not need to exchange it
for a French licence until it expires. However if they passed
their test after 31st January 2020 then you only have 12 months
after they become resident to exchange their UK licence for a
French licence. If they miss that window then they cannot
exchange & must pass a French driving test to legally drive in
which case they will quite legally hold both a valid UK & a
French driving licence.
Every EU state now has different rules for licence exchange as
all post-Brexit arrangements for driving licences have had to be
agreed on a bilateral basis.
HTML https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-the-eu-uk-licence-holders-living-in-the-eu
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