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       #Post#: 22653--------------------------------------------------
       Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: estevenin
       Date: May 15, 2024, 7:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi all,
       I have a question that goes through my mind. It's related to
       speeding offences, but not a specific one so posting here.
       Let's assume a British resident (foreigner or national), legally
       owns 2 driving licence. One from UK, one from EU.
       He drives a car in the UK, and when having an insurance quote,
       he has to provide his UK driving licence informations.
       Question : When receiving a motorist offence notice, can the
       driver choose to declare his foreign (EU) licence instead of the
       British one ?
       The obvious reason is to avoid the points on the British one,
       and the premium on insurance renewal, and there would be no
       offence attached to it.
       I'v looked it up and it's quite blurred. First of all, it is
       allowed to hold those two licences. Then, the insurance, even if
       the quote requires your driving licence, is issued at your name
       and your name only.
       So I can't find a reason why the police would refuse a
       submission, if you choose to mention and send a valid EU
       licence, instead of your UK one.
       Any thoughts anyone ? Or return of experience ?
       Thank you.
       #Post#: 22656--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: slapdash
       Date: May 15, 2024, 8:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I imagine the insurer would ask about offences by the person. If
       it bypasses the question by optionally accepting a UK license
       doing so would seem to be a fraudulent act to gain a lower
       premium.
       The foreign or EU license would typically be valid for a defined
       period after becoming resident. If you didn't cease to be
       resident it's hard to see how it would be valid.
       #Post#: 22658--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: May 16, 2024, 1:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Offences are recorded against a driver record, not a licence.
       See s 44A of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
       #Post#: 22660--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: The Rookie
       Date: May 16, 2024, 2:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
       >
       > Offences are recorded against a driver record, not a licence.
       See s 44A of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Even if DVLA failed to add it to your driver record, you would
       know you had been punished for the offence so not declaring it
       would be fraudulent.
       #Post#: 22674--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: 666
       Date: May 16, 2024, 4:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Points can't be added to a foreign licence, so the DVLA set up a
       "ghost" licence record. Doing so would presumably flag up the
       existence of a UK licence holder with the same name and DOB (and
       possibly address). If so, the OP's cunning plan would fail.
       #Post#: 22675--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: nigelbb
       Date: May 16, 2024, 4:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You would need to pass your driving test in both the UK & EU
       state to have two driving licences. Do you actually have two
       driving licences or is this just a hypothetical question?
       #Post#: 22685--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: estevenin
       Date: May 16, 2024, 6:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi all,
       Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I
       was asked the question, I would declare it. However the
       insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during
       quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not
       required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some
       sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote,
       even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.
       However, if it's attached to the driver and they only use the
       name and DOB, then yes, I assume that would probably get
       attached to that UK licence.
       --- Quote from: nigelbb link ---
       >
       > You would need to pass your driving test in both the UK & EU
       state to have two driving licences. Do you actually have two
       driving licences or is this just a hypothetical question?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes correct. So I passed my driving test in France many years
       ago, and exchanged that licence again many years ago, for a full
       UK on, when I became resident.
       I recently passed my bike licence in France, so they issued me a
       new driving licence over there. It also contained the car
       licence, as I had it on their records. So I have a UK (car)
       driving licence, and now a FR (car / bike) driving licence.
       I strached my head for a while with that but it seems to be
       perfectly legal and acceptable, despite consultations a while
       back before Brexit, it obviously didn't go through now thay
       Brexit went ahead.
       I'v also read that you are required to exchange your foreign
       licence if you are à resident (which I did), but nothing forces
       you to use that licence, over a foreign one.
       Even in the hypothetical case I am stopped by the police, if I
       decide to show the FR licence instead of the UK, they will end
       up saying that it should be exchanged, which I did.
       At the end, I understand that the law does not plan for a
       country to issue à driving licence twice, after the first beeing
       exchanged already...
       So I understand that records are attached to the driver. Also
       that you need to disclose offences, applied to you. And also,
       that you need to have a UK licence beeing a UK resident...
       With all that beeing said, is choosing to disclose your foreign
       licence instead of a UK one, when receiving a speed ticket
       (without thinking of the reasons why that I mentionned on the
       first post), an offence, or is that then a grey area ?
       #Post#: 22688--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: 666
       Date: May 16, 2024, 6:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: estevenin link ---
       >
       > Hi all,
       >
       > Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I
       was asked the question, I would declare it. However the
       insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during
       quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not
       required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some
       sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote,
       even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.
       >
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That sounds unlikely.
       A renewal notice normally asks you whether anything has changed,
       e.g. my latest one said "It is important that you review your
       ‘Schedule and Information provided by you’ document to ensure
       that the data we hold is current and that you inform us of any
       changes."
       #Post#: 22714--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: estevenin
       Date: May 16, 2024, 10:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I found this in the city of London police website :
       "If you're a foreign national and have been issued with a
       licence by the DVLA then you should provide the details of the
       licence issued by the DVLA. If you don't hold a UK licence then
       you must send us the licence number and country of issue of your
       non-UK licence."
       I note that they use the word "should" but not "must"
       #Post#: 28629--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
   DIR By: estevenin
       Date: July 4, 2024, 9:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: 666 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=estevenin link=topic=1908.msg22685#msg22685
       date=1715858813]
       > Hi all,
       >
       > Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I
       was asked the question, I would declare it. However the
       insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during
       quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not
       required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some
       sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote,
       even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.
       >
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That sounds unlikely.
       A renewal notice normally asks you whether anything has changed,
       e.g. my latest one said "It is important that you review your
       ‘Schedule and Information provided by you’ document
       to ensure that the data we hold is current and that you inform
       us of any changes."
       [/quote]
       I specifically asked them, their email reply was "There is no
       need to inform us of any conviction as we are able to pull that
       data automatically from DVLA"
       If I ever get a speeding fine in the future, I will try, to get
       a definitive answer to that question, and update that post
       accordingly. I will update the insurance by email and that way
       if they already had the data or not and I'll know if the data is
       joint to my UK profile or sent to a seperate account. Given that
       there is no law instructing that it is mandatory to send your UK
       licence, instead or a foreign one.
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