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       #Post#: 22806--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 17, 2024, 5:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=goonergaz link=topic=1901.msg22556#msg22556
       date=1715777992]
       > Also, not sure I want to go to tribunal (again - 3 times for
       the failed ULEZ tickets)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       [member=1746]goonergaz[/member] . For London bus lane cases,
       it's basically been 100% since July 2021.
       If you pay now you're literally throwing your money away for
       nothing.
       [/quote]
       The reason being: no VCA certificate of an approved device. Most
       councils have updated their cameras and certificates - this one
       has not at this particular location.  It is a Bosch for which
       there is no certificate=evidence is inadmissible at the
       Tribunal.  Seemples.
       I think The Three Musketeers* should represent this one:
       Aramis (cp8759) can attend by phone: camera questions.
       Porthos (MrMustard) arrival by motorbike: signage issues and
       TMO.
       Athos (Hippocrates) arrival by train: vague locus, failure to
       consider and popcorn provider for the Adjudicator.
       One has to see the funny side of what is daylight robbery.  :D
       I bet they will Do Not Contest.
       *
       D'Artagnan  (Schofeldt) might attend too.  ;)
       #Post#: 22890--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: goonergaz
       Date: May 17, 2024, 1:55 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > I have messaged the OP.  Please give me your wife's number to
       stop her nagging you about paying! I will not lose this case.
       If I do, I will pay half.  And then she can take me out for
       dinner at McDonalds.  Councils play upon such fear!  ULEZ has
       nowt to do with this!
       >
       > I can't be bothered anymore with this thread if people do not
       listen.  The offer still stands.
       >
       > cp8759, MrMustard and I are fondly described as "The Three
       Musketeers" by one member of staff at the Tribunal. If you wish
       for the guillotine, then pay.  I would PM both of them if you do
       not trust me.
       >
       > I have just e mailed them.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ha, I replied to your post asking about the wording of my
       appeal, I will repost here;
       ----------------
       So I'm 100% clear, I challenge stating (my changes in bold);
       Dear Camden
       Ref: PCN                      VRM
       As the owner of the registered vehicle, I was not driving at the
       time in question. My husband was driving, and he will be
       representing me from this point forward.
       I challenge the PCN as follows:
       1. There is no adequate signage in place or, indeed, shown in
       the video.
       2. There is no exact location stated on the PCN.
       3. I put you to strict proof that the camera used to capture the
       alleged contravention is approved by the VCA. Unless you can do
       so, the evidence is inadmissible at the Tribunal according to
       para. 7(2) of Schedule I of the London Local Authorities act
       1996 (as amended)
       4. The core Order (The Camden (Bus Lanes) (Consolidation)
       Traffic Order 2012)specifies an access exemption at Art 5.1.1. I
       was in the "bus lane only to such extent and for so long as
       necessary to enter or exit a side road" as demonstrated by your
       camera evidence.
       In light of the above, the PCN must be cancelled.
       Yours
       My name not the wife's :)
       Address
       ----------------
       Appreciate the offer, BTW I've not had a message?
       #Post#: 22891--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: goonergaz
       Date: May 17, 2024, 1:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=goonergaz link=topic=1901.msg22556#msg22556
       date=1715777992]
       > Also, not sure I want to go to tribunal (again - 3 times for
       the failed ULEZ tickets)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       [member=1746]goonergaz[/member] I suspect you represented
       yourself for the ULEZ PCNs? Just under 50% of appeals are
       allowed, but for motorists who a represented by one of us the
       success rate is around 85 / 90%. For London bus lane cases, it's
       basically been 100% since July 2021.
       If you pay now you're literally throwing your money away for
       nothing.
       [/quote]
       I didn't know about this place, I went to PiPePoo (or whatever
       it was called). A real PITA and got totally shafted. The sign
       into the road was totally in the wrong place but she didn't
       care. I wouldn't mind, but I had to go 3 times which costs money
       and significant time for them to reject it :(
       #Post#: 22892--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 17, 2024, 2:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       PM you now. If they reject from the beginning, when it is
       Tribunal time, it will be a matter for costs.
       Just bear in mind that most people who work for the councils are
       expected, in practice, to have the same knowledge as
       adjudicators because parking law is a minefield. I am trying to
       be kind to them to explain their incompetence. Merton e.g. have
       only just begun to learn re bus lane contraventions.
       Just put in the challenge online and keep a copy, screenshot,
       the lot.
       I have all the maps and camera details for each bus lane on this
       road. So I have e mailed you if you would like me to send them
       to you.
       Athos!
       #Post#: 23928--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 26, 2024, 1:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: goonergaz link ---
       >
       > I didn't know about this place, I went to PiPePoo (or whatever
       it was called). A real PITA and got totally shafted. The sign
       into the road was totally in the wrong place but she didn't
       care. I wouldn't mind, but I had to go 3 times which costs money
       and significant time for them to reject it :(
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       For a ULEZ case, basically unless you're represented by someone
       on here who says you have an arguable case, then it's a lost
       cause. But then if it were a lost cause I'd tell you to take the
       discount while you still could.
       Bus lane cases are much, much easier. Let Hippocrates sort out
       this case out for you and you can't really go wrong.
       #Post#: 23936--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 26, 2024, 1:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=1746]goonergaz[/member]  you have my e mail address?
       Please contact me asap. E mail sent.
       #Post#: 27418--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: June 25, 2024, 1:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Rejection letter of course saying all their cameras are
       approved! Just carry on Camden.  ::)
       You have stated that that the exact location of where the PCN
       was issued is not stated however, this does not provide an
       exemption or sufficient mitigation to cancel the PCN. The CCTV
       photographs confirm that camera number 207 captured your vehicle
       driving in a bus lane on Highgate Road. I would like to add that
       the London Borough of Camden only used approved devices to issue
       CCTV PCNs. Please note that each case is treated by on a case by
       case basis and past cases do not sent precedent for future PCNs.
       #Post#: 36115--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: September 8, 2024, 1:15 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Appeal filed. The NOR is quite incredulous - even cites the
       wrong legislation and total failure to consider.
       This really should be a job for The Daily Telegraph.  8)
       #Post#: 36118--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: September 8, 2024, 1:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The camera is a Bosch and it has no VCA certificate for bus lane
       enforcement at all.
       #Post#: 39606--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: October 6, 2024, 1:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       DNCed. Costs application to follow. The correspondence between
       the parking manager and me is quite incredulous - from her side,
       and from my point of view! Total admission (involuntary) that
       the camera is a Bosch!  :o  ::)
       More to follow as many appeals have been lost at this location.
       If I find that adjudicators have refused appeals  for this same
       camera, then it hits the fan.
       I am seriously vexed.
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