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       #Post#: 22566--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: guest17
       Date: May 15, 2024, 8:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       +1 to what Hippo has said.
       Access across a bus lane is an exemption:-
       5.1.1 the vehicle is in the bus lane only to such extent and for
       so long as is necessary to enter or exit a side road or for it
       to access or leave premises adjacent to the bus lane;
       The core Order:-
  HTML https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4207157/BUS+LANE+CONSOLIDATION.pdf/66f10077-eaaf-f604-13fc-4c67b57aa374
       Mike
       #Post#: 22580--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: goonergaz
       Date: May 15, 2024, 10:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MMV Redux link ---
       >
       > +1 to what Hippo has said.
       >
       > Access across a bus lane is an exemption:-
       >
       > 5.1.1 the vehicle is in the bus lane only to such extent and
       for so long as is necessary to enter or exit a side road or for
       it to access or leave premises adjacent to the bus lane;
       >
       > The core Order:-
       >
       >
  HTML https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4207157/BUS+LANE+CONSOLIDATION.pdf/66f10077-eaaf-f604-13fc-4c67b57aa374
       >
       > Mike
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yeah, I saw that - I just thought was it actually necessary (in
       retrospect)
       So should I add a point 4 stating the above?
       I challenge the PCN as follows:
       1. There is no adequate signage in place or, indeed, shown in
       the video.
       2. There is no exact location stated on the PCN.
       3. I put you to strict proof that the camera used to capture the
       alleged contravention is approved by the VCA. Unless you can do
       so, the evidence is inadmissible at the Tribunal according to
       para. 7(2) of Schedule I of the London Local Authorities act
       1996 (as amended)
       4. As per your exemption 5.1.1 I was in the "bus lane only to
       such extent and for so long as is necessary to enter or exit a
       side road"
       In light of the above, the PCN must be cancelled.
       #Post#: 22589--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: guest17
       Date: May 15, 2024, 11:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OP--make it a bit easier for them:-
       The core Order (The Camden (Bus Lanes) (Consolidation) Traffic
       Order 2012)specifies an access exemption at Art 5.1.1. I was in
       the "bus lane only to such extent and for so long as necessary
       to enter or exit a side road" as demonstrated by your camera
       evidence.
       Mike
       #Post#: 22605--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 15, 2024, 1:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have all the paperwork to do with this bus lane, the cameras
       and the number of bus lanes actually on the said road.
       MrMustard knows the lack of signage well.  Fun time!
       The Mrs should do the challenge. She can always authorise you at
       this stage or any stage in the process.
       Anyway, as I promise all my clients, if I lose a bus lane case,
       I pay half. I got 5 out of 7 cancelled two weeks ago against
       Lambeth and more to follow because the infamous council say
       formal represenatations were not made in time! Costs application
       filed today.  2240132030
       #Post#: 22703--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: goonergaz
       Date: May 16, 2024, 8:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > I have all the paperwork to do with this bus lane, the cameras
       and the number of bus lanes actually on the said road.
       MrMustard knows the lack of signage well.  Fun time!
       >
       > The Mrs should do the challenge. She can always authorise you
       at this stage or any stage in the process.
       >
       > Anyway, as I promise all my clients, if I lose a bus lane
       case, I pay half. I got 5 out of 7 cancelled two weeks ago
       against Lambeth and more to follow because the infamous council
       say formal represenatations were not made in time! Costs
       application filed today.  2240132030
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So I'm 100% clear, I challenge stating (my changes in bold);
       Dear Camden
       Ref: PCN                      VRM
       As the owner of the registered vehicle, I was not driving at the
       time in question. My husband was driving, and he will be
       representing me from this point forward.
       I challenge the PCN as follows:
       1. There is no adequate signage in place or, indeed, shown in
       the video.
       2. There is no exact location stated on the PCN.
       3. I put you to strict proof that the camera used to capture the
       alleged contravention is approved by the VCA. Unless you can do
       so, the evidence is inadmissible at the Tribunal according to
       para. 7(2) of Schedule I of the London Local Authorities act
       1996 (as amended)
       4. The core Order (The Camden (Bus Lanes) (Consolidation)
       Traffic Order 2012)specifies an access exemption at Art 5.1.1. I
       was in the "bus lane only to such extent and for so long as
       necessary to enter or exit a side road" as demonstrated by your
       camera evidence.
       In light of the above, the PCN must be cancelled.
       Yours
       My name not the wife's :)
       Address
       Thanks
       #Post#: 22712--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: slapdash
       Date: May 16, 2024, 9:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: goonergaz link ---
       > Also, not sure I want to go to tribunal (again - 3 times for
       the failed ULEZ tickets)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Write a cheque then.
       The problem is the more people do the bolder authorities get in
       pushing trivial boundaries.
       #Post#: 22748--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 16, 2024, 4:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have messaged the OP.  Please give me your wife's number to
       stop her nagging you about paying! I will not lose this case.
       If I do, I will pay half.  And then she can take me out for
       dinner at McDonalds.  Councils play upon such fear!  ULEZ has
       nowt to do with this!
       I can't be bothered anymore with this thread if people do not
       listen.  The offer still stands.
       cp8759, MrMustard and I are fondly described as "The Three
       Musketeers" by one member of staff at the Tribunal. If you wish
       for the guillotine, then pay.  I would PM both of them if you do
       not trust me.
       I have just e mailed them.
       #Post#: 22752--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 16, 2024, 5:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: goonergaz link ---
       >
       > Also, not sure I want to go to tribunal (again - 3 times for
       the failed ULEZ tickets)
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       [member=1746]goonergaz[/member] I suspect you represented
       yourself for the ULEZ PCNs? Just under 50% of appeals are
       allowed, but for motorists who a represented by one of us the
       success rate is around 85 / 90%. For London bus lane cases, it's
       basically been 100% since July 2021.
       If you pay now you're literally throwing your money away for
       nothing.
       #Post#: 22769--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: mrmustard
       Date: May 17, 2024, 1:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       We can see from the images that the signs are missing. I took a
       Mov 23 PCN to the tribunal for a skip lorry which used the short
       bus lane to turn left and the council threw in the towel rather
       than fight the case.
       I go to the tribunal nearly every week. I won 5-0 yesterday.
       Perfectly happy to be the representative (no charge, only a
       charity donation).
       #Post#: 22777--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Camden PCN for using bus lane - can I appeal?
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: May 17, 2024, 3:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There you go:  two Musketeers have now offered to represent!
       Meanwhile, just put in the challenge as advised above.
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