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#Post#: 22488--------------------------------------------------
PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street, Market
Street
DIR By: S23
Date: May 14, 2024, 6:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
PCN issued 08/05/24. Vehicle parked in business permit holder
only bay for short while. Street view link:
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4434882,0.2183591,3a,51.6y,55.7h,79.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXo8Wmb5gotYyuR9Kr-eQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4434882,0.2183591,3a,51.6y,55.7h,79.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXo8Wmb5gotYyuR9Kr-eQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
PCN Front: Page 1
HTML https://drive.proton.me/urls/S4QRQ6W11W#EdWowYJUEQVD
PCN Back: Page 2
HTML https://drive.proton.me/urls/NDKY2ZCNF8#mnFGhyhXVkEz
Discussed with parking warden and I explained there was a
distressed baby in the car who needed changing and no other
parking locations. They 'made a note' and suggested I mention it
when appealing.
What can you advise please about the validity, or otherwise (if
anything)? Many thanks in advance
#Post#: 22494--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 14, 2024, 6:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Reading your narrative, your circumstances come under what is
referred to as "mitigating circumstances", i.e you were not
permitted to park there, but mitigating circumstances, (
distressed baby in the car who needed changing and no other
parking locations), compelled you to do so. Of course there may
well be other, technical issues around the PCN, the parking
location etc that would also be grounds for cancellation of the
PCN, and others on here may spot one. For instance there is no
telephone facility on the PCN for payment of the penalty. It
could be considered that this is discriminatory, and therefore
grounds for cancellation.
The problem with "mitigating circumstances" is that only the
council can cancel a PCN if they accept these. An adjudicator
can only accept a set of legally defined circumstances, and
mitigation is not one of them. In addition to this, councils are
renowned in London for their venality and rapacity and usually
reject all informal and even formal representations because they
know from experience that most people just cough-up. Having said
that, don't be disheartened, because it is always worthwhile
submitting informal representations to a PCN, and especially in
your circumstances. Sometimes somebody in a council with at
least a smidgeon of humanity will accept such representations.
So submit reps on the compelling circumstances that essentially
forced you to stop there, and post-up their reponse when you get
it. Do mention your conversation with the CEO when the PCN was
issued, as this should be in their notes.
#Post#: 22654--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: S23
Date: May 15, 2024, 7:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your response. Would it be beneficial to submit
informal reps (polite letter around the mitigating
circumstances) and separately also formal reps (for technical
issues) at the same time in order to resolve it before the
14-day discount period ends?
Could anyone else kindly advise on whether there are any other
technical issues with this?
Many thanks
#Post#: 22671--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 16, 2024, 3:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You can only submit formal representations at the Notice to
Owner stage, but you're not there yet, so I suggest you submit
an informal challenge explaining the circumstances, (based on
your narrative here), and also that you spoke to the CEO who
said he would make a note of the situation. Post up their
response when you get it.
Are you the vehicle owner and is the name and address on your V5
Registration Certificate up-to-date and correct in all details ?
The Notice to Owner is sent to that address.
Councils invariably refuse all informal reps because they know
most people then just cough-up, so don't be disappointed if they
refuse your reps. Your problem at the moment is finding a
cast-iron reason for the PCN to be cancelled. You will see that
the PCN has no telephone or postal payment option, it is either
on-line or by personal visit to the council office. I suspect
this is not lawful, but nobody else has yet commented on this
aspect, so I'll make a few enquiries. Whatever, it is certainly
highly discriminatory in my opinion.
So, for now, submit an informal challenge. This will give us
time to investigate the payment options issue. As regards the
contravention itself, I can't yet see anything to refute this.
#Post#: 22678--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 16, 2024, 5:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
S23, can you post up the whole pages for your PCN, so we can see
the complete page and text top to bottom. There is a possible
non-compliance with the regulations on PCN content.
#Post#: 23243--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: S23
Date: May 20, 2024, 2:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> S23, can you post up the whole pages for your PCN, so we can
see the complete page and text top to bottom. There is a
possible non-compliance with the regulations on PCN content.
>
--- End Quote ---
Those uploaded above are both complete pages - I have double
checked and everything has been captured. Let me know if you
would still like new images
I have challenged the PCN informally within the 14 day period
and will keep you updated. V5C has correct name/address
Many thanks
#Post#: 23267--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2024, 4:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just to say that I looked for what councils must offer
payment-wise on a PCN, but there is no mandatory requirement.
The Statutory Guidance on Parking (October 2022) just says,
under "Collecting penalty charges" the following: -
--- Quote ---
> "Enforcement authorities should offer motorists a range of
facilities for paying penalty charges. Where they provide
payment centres these should be safe and accessible."
--- End Quote ---
.
This PCN only contains two payment options.
#Post#: 23991--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 8:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=647]S23[/member] if you get a rejection please post up a
copy of the informal representations.
I've had a look on traffweb and this is the map tile:
HTML https://store.traffweb.app/kent/documents/parkmap/msched/Y29_rv8_2.pdf
There is an obvious issue because the traffic order creates a
single bay, not two different bays with different restrictions.
One question I'm sure will come is, why didn't you pull over in
one of the pay to park bays on the other side of the
carriageway?
I'll get hold of the traffic order but there is often an
exception for circumstances beyond the control of the driver,
this might qualify. It's also not entirely true that the
adjudicator cannot consider mitigation, he cannot allow based on
mitigation but he can remit the case to the authority for
reconsideration. When that happens in around a third of cases
the council refuses, but in a third of cases they accept and in
another third they do not respond (if they don't respond within
35 days they're deemed to have accepted the adjudicator's
recommendation).
#Post#: 24411--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: S23
Date: May 29, 2024, 3:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=647]S23[/member] if you get a rejection please post up
a copy of the informal representations.
>
> I've had a look on traffweb and this is the map tile:
HTML https://store.traffweb.app/kent/documents/parkmap/msched/Y29_rv8_2.pdf
>
> There is an obvious issue because the traffic order creates a
single bay, not two different bays with different restrictions.
>
> One question I'm sure will come is, why didn't you pull over
in one of the pay to park bays on the other side of the
carriageway?
>
> I'll get hold of the traffic order but there is often an
exception for circumstances beyond the control of the driver,
this might qualify. It's also not entirely true that the
adjudicator cannot consider mitigation, he cannot allow based on
mitigation but he can remit the case to the authority for
reconsideration. When that happens in around a third of cases
the council refuses, but in a third of cases they accept and in
another third they do not respond (if they don't respond within
35 days they're deemed to have accepted the adjudicator's
recommendation).
>
--- End Quote ---
The reason for not using another bay was simply that all were
full at the time.
The appeal has been rejected - please kindly see the response
here:
HTML https://drive.proton.me/urls/4D5GG4BB5W#ITz5xoSMLi06
HTML https://drive.proton.me/urls/4D5GG4BB5W#ITz5xoSMLi06
Are the grounds mentioned in previous posts strong enough to
make representations? Or would you advise paying the reduced fee
in this case? Many thanks
#Post#: 24418--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - Dartford, code 16 parked in permit space on street,
Market Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 29, 2024, 4:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What hearts of stone they have in that council. I hope they all
get to travel in Charon's boat when the time comes !
However, I'm not sure whether your circumstances would win at an
adjudication, but see what the others say. You've got 14 days
from the 28th May to pay the discount.
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