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#Post#: 22342--------------------------------------------------
Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: roadster01
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:06 pm
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Hi,
I recently received this PCN for an expired visitors permit (I
was visiting my parents here). It is true that I scratched out
"April" instead of "May" (Contravention occurred on 01/05/2024)
however this was a total mistake, I had actually scratched it
that morning!
I have submitted a reps stating this just to extend my Reduced
Charge, although I know this won't stand at all to cancel the
PCN.
I'm wondering if anyone can find some legal issue to invalidate
the PCN before I pay.
Photos:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WdCoK8vB1z_91BOAdkc4QjL2Erhjmp3s?usp=drive_link
Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xWw8nB69HByxD6ZS9
There are more pictures on the council website.
Thanks
#Post#: 22346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:24 pm
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Please post the back of the PCN so we can look for errors in the
"small print".
It might be worth submitting reps on a grovelling basis, saying
that you were staying at your parents and had not realised the
month was now May, (the PCN is dated 1st May), so scratched-out
the wrong month and ask that on this ocasion the PCN be
cancelled. However the hardest of hard hearts are found in
council parking departments, so don't expect too much, but you
never know.
#Post#: 22348--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: roadster01
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:36 pm
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Here's the back.
I've the grovelling approach before- hard hearts indeed....
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 22356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 13, 2024, 7:44 pm
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As far as I can see, the PCN does not comply with these
regulations: -
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
In particular, Chapter 1, Regulation 3
--- Quote ---
> CHAPTER 1
> Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge
notices and enforcement notices
> Information about right to make representations or appeal to
be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and
enforcement notices
> 3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the
following information—
>
> (a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in
accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the
enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those
representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
> (b)that if, before a notice to owner is served,
representations against the penalty charge are received at such
address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those
representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
> (c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the
representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations
against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement
authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in
the notice to owner.
--- End Quote ---
Do you see anything like 3(1)(c) on it ? All of 3(1) a, b, and c
must be on the PCN. Different words can be used, but must convey
the same meaning.
#Post#: 22452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: roadster01
Date: May 14, 2024, 2:38 pm
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I had a look,
I believe that the paragraph I circled in the picture attached
contains the info in 3 (1)(c). I'm not that great with all the
legal jargon (quite hopeless actually) but let me know if I'm
wrong.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 22568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: zwi
Date: May 15, 2024, 8:58 am
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Maybe you can prove that 01/04/24 was not on Wednesday, as I see
you scratch Wed which was 01/05/24
#Post#: 22740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: roadster01
Date: May 16, 2024, 2:27 pm
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Good point, however as I already sent my reps I want to make
sure this claim would stand in court. What do you think?
#Post#: 23263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 20, 2024, 4:05 pm
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--- Quote from: roadster01 link ---
>
> Good point, however as I already sent my reps I want to make
sure this claim would stand in court. What do you think?
>
--- End Quote ---
PCNs don't go to court, so that would be a bit difficult. It
wouldn't be relevant at the tribunal either because you're
submitting mitigation, and only the authority has a power to
cancel a penalty based on mitigating circumstances.
But even if the PCN is upheld at the informal stage that is not
a reason not to have another go at the NTO stage, as long as the
NTO is challenged within 14 days you're almost certain to get
the discount reoffered.
That being said, for now it would be useful to see what you
sent.
#Post#: 23622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: roadster01
Date: May 22, 2024, 5:28 pm
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I had sent it before posting here. So I just wrote in short that
it was a mistake and that i had really filled it out that
morning. I was just trying to buy time as my 14 days were nearly
up.
They will definitly uphold the PCN (hard hearts...), So I'll
just wait for an NTO?
#Post#: 24049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 11:34 am
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[member=414]roadster01[/member] well the only things you can do
now are wait for the NTO or pay, and considering that the
discount will be offered again as long as the NTO is challenged
within 14 days, there's not much point in paying now.
That being said the formal representations need to be as robust
as possible.
Do you have any mitigation that could be put to the council,
even if it is wholly unrelated to the contravention?
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