URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 22342--------------------------------------------------
       Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: roadster01
       Date: May 13, 2024, 6:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       I recently received this PCN for an expired visitors permit (I
       was visiting my parents here). It is true that I scratched out
       "April" instead of "May" (Contravention occurred on 01/05/2024)
       however this was a total mistake, I had actually scratched it
       that morning!
       I have submitted a reps stating this just to extend my Reduced
       Charge, although I know this won't stand at all to cancel the
       PCN.
       I'm wondering if anyone can find some legal issue to invalidate
       the PCN before I pay.
       Photos:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WdCoK8vB1z_91BOAdkc4QjL2Erhjmp3s?usp=drive_link
       Location:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xWw8nB69HByxD6ZS9
       There are more pictures on the council website.
       Thanks
       #Post#: 22346--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 13, 2024, 6:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Please post the back of the PCN so we can look for errors in the
       "small print".
       It might be worth submitting reps on a grovelling basis, saying
       that you were staying at your parents and had not realised the
       month was now May, (the PCN is dated 1st May), so scratched-out
       the wrong month and ask that on this ocasion the PCN be
       cancelled. However the hardest of hard hearts are found in
       council parking departments, so don't expect too much, but you
       never know.
       #Post#: 22348--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: roadster01
       Date: May 13, 2024, 6:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here's the back.
       I've the grovelling approach before- hard hearts indeed....
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 22356--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: May 13, 2024, 7:44 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As far as I can see, the PCN does not comply with these
       regulations: -
       The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
       (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
       In particular, Chapter 1, Regulation 3
       --- Quote ---
       > CHAPTER 1
       > Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge
       notices and enforcement notices
       > Information about right to make representations or appeal to
       be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and
       enforcement notices
       > 3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the
       following information—
       >
       > (a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in
       accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the
       enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those
       representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
       > (b)that if, before a notice to owner is served,
       representations against the penalty charge are received at such
       address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those
       representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
       > (c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the
       representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations
       against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement
       authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in
       the notice to owner.
       --- End Quote ---
       Do you see anything like 3(1)(c) on it ? All of 3(1) a, b, and c
       must be on the PCN. Different words can be used, but must convey
       the same meaning.
       #Post#: 22452--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: roadster01
       Date: May 14, 2024, 2:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I had a look,
       I believe that the paragraph I circled in the picture attached
       contains the info in 3 (1)(c). I'm not that great with all the
       legal jargon (quite hopeless actually) but let me know if I'm
       wrong.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 22568--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: zwi
       Date: May 15, 2024, 8:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Maybe you can prove that 01/04/24 was not on Wednesday, as I see
       you scratch Wed  which was 01/05/24
       #Post#: 22740--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: roadster01
       Date: May 16, 2024, 2:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Good point, however as I already sent my reps I want to make
       sure this claim would stand in court. What do you think?
       #Post#: 23263--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 20, 2024, 4:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: roadster01 link ---
       >
       > Good point, however as I already sent my reps I want to make
       sure this claim would stand in court. What do you think?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       PCNs don't go to court, so that would be a bit difficult. It
       wouldn't be relevant at the tribunal either because you're
       submitting mitigation, and only the authority has a power to
       cancel a penalty based on mitigating circumstances.
       But even if the PCN is upheld at the informal stage that is not
       a reason not to have another go at the NTO stage, as long as the
       NTO is challenged within 14 days you're almost certain to get
       the discount reoffered.
       That being said, for now it would be useful to see what you
       sent.
       #Post#: 23622--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: roadster01
       Date: May 22, 2024, 5:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I had sent it before posting here. So I just wrote in short that
       it was a mistake and that i had really filled it out that
       morning. I was just trying to buy time as my 14 days were nearly
       up.
       They will definitly uphold the PCN (hard hearts...), So I'll
       just wait for an NTO?
       #Post#: 24049--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Code 19- Fairview road - Expired Permit
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: May 27, 2024, 11:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=414]roadster01[/member] well the only things you can do
       now are wait for the NTO or pay, and considering that the
       discount will be offered again as long as the NTO is challenged
       within 14 days, there's not much point in paying now.
       That being said the formal representations need to be as robust
       as possible.
       Do you have any mitigation that could be put to the council,
       even if it is wholly unrelated to the contravention?
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 4
   DIR Next Page