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#Post#: 22330--------------------------------------------------
US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Uscitizen5
Date: May 13, 2024, 4:49 pm
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Like the title states, I received a fine for £100 by Merseyside
police via speed camera. I paid the fine and thought that was
the end of it. About a month ago this fine was refunded to me
without explanation. Now I am receiving a new fine of 408£
according to a judge’s ruling. Ultimately, I know if I don’t act
on it there is nothing that can be done to me as I don’t live in
England. However, I love the country and do want to visit again.
Before moving forward, I want to know what are the consequences
of not paying? What happened with the first refunded fine?
#Post#: 22331--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 13, 2024, 5:31 pm
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You probably didn’t provide your driving licence details, at a
guess.
Realistically, nothing is likely to happen to you if you come
back to the UK but in theory a warrant could be issued for your
arrest.
#Post#: 22334--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: slapdash
Date: May 13, 2024, 5:37 pm
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It wasn't actually a fine. That needs a court.
It was, probably, a conditional offer of fixed penalty. Most
likely you failed to comply with it properly, usually by not
providing license details as requested on the offer.
Consequences of ignoring and not paying?
You could theoretically get detained at port of entry. If a visa
is required it could come to light during your application and
be refused. Who knows how our processes and procedures will
evolve in the future.
Most probably nothing will happen unless you come to the
attention of police by some future indiscretion.
#Post#: 22347--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Uscitizen5
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:30 pm
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How long would a theoretical arrest warrant be valid for?
Indefinitely or does it get expunged after some time.
#Post#: 22350--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:43 pm
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--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> It wasn't actually a fine. That needs a court.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don’t you start!
#Post#: 22351--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 13, 2024, 6:43 pm
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--- Quote from: Uscitizen5 link ---
>
> How long would a theoretical arrest warrant be valid for?
Indefinitely or does it get expunged after some time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indefinitely.
#Post#: 22357--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: Uscitizen5
Date: May 13, 2024, 8:37 pm
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> [quote author=Uscitizen5 link=topic=1884.msg22347#msg22347
date=1715643043]
> How long would a theoretical arrest warrant be valid for?
Indefinitely or does it get expunged after some time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indefinitely.
[/quote]
Would it be possible to contest this? Considering I was in the
USA and unable to provide my license at the time. Either way, I
will have to pay. £408 is a small price to pay to ensure I may
visit again in the future.
#Post#: 22359--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: slapdash
Date: May 14, 2024, 2:29 am
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Depending upon what was received (and it appears this may be
nothing between a fixed penalty offer and being convicted in
your absence) there could be a variety of means of reopening the
case dependant upon exactly what has occured.
In practical terms irrecoverable costs may be a barrier.
#Post#: 22361--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: May 14, 2024, 2:39 am
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--- Quote from: Uscitizen5 link ---
>
> Would it be possible to contest this? Considering I was in the
USA and unable to provide my license at the time.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, you either comply or the matter goes to court and you are
sentenced, although the right submission in response to the
'summons' (SJPN) would have seen a much lighter sentence. If
your response to the SJPN was 'poor' you could ask the court to
re-open the case under Section 142 of the magistrates court act
to re-sentence in line with guidance for those unable to comply
with the fixed penalty offer.
#Post#: 22377--------------------------------------------------
Re: US citizen not living in England received new Fine after
previous paid fine refunded.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 14, 2024, 5:17 am
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The requirement (that we can confidently assume that you and
many, many others failed to comply with) is, in law at least, to
provide your name, date of birth and driving licence number, to
the relevant person (fixed penalty clerk) (s. 75(8A) Road
Traffic Offenders Act 1988).
There has been no requirement to send your physical licence off
to accept a COFP for some time now, so the fact that you were in
the US and therefore somehow unable to send it off (presumably
the US does not have a postal service?) is irrelevant as that
was not a [legal] requirement.
Assuming that you failed to separately provide the required
information (or any requirements that the police might decided
to unlawfully seek to impose), but that in order to make payment
of the fixed penalty to the relevant person (fixed penalty
clerk) you provided your name and UK licence number (UK licence
number incorporates date of birth), I would argue that you had
complied with the legal requirements and that the subsequent
proceedings were unlawful.
If the above applies, I would suggest that that would be your
route of challenge. If you had not substantively provided your
date of birth, then it would appear that you had not complied
with the requirements.
There is provision in the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines for
imposing a penalty equivalent to the fixed penalty in
circumstances where a fixed penalty could not be taken up for
reasons unconnected with the offence. When raised in the
mitigation section, this appears to be regularly ignored by the
SJPN process, or alternatively, according to our resident
gobshite, if you hadn't made a "poor" submission you would have
gotten a lighter sentence.
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