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#Post#: 24515--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 30, 2024, 4:32 pm
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I'm sorry to say that the signage is perfectly valid because
once you enter a zone, you must assume the zone carries on
forever unless and until you pass an "end of zone" sign. If
there were no repeater signs in a very large zone that could
rebut the assumption that you should know you're in the zone,
but by your own admission there were repeaters which you saw.
The fundamental issue with your (mis)understanding of the signs
is that either you're inside a zone, or you're not. It cannot be
that there are signs and you are subject to them or not
depending on how far you are from the sign, because that would
render the whole concept entirely arbitrary: how could you
determine how far from a sign is far enough? Given that most
traffic signs impose strict liability, that would be far too
vague, hence the start and of the restricted area must be
clearly defined either by zone entry/exit signs, so you can know
with certainty where you're inside the zone or not.
Unfortunately while you might not have known any of this when
you parked, ignorance of the law is no defence.
I would seriously recommend you make an additional
representation as follows:
[indent]
Dear Essex County Council,
Having taken legal advice, I now understand the entire zone is
subject to statutory controls and the area where I parked is
restricted irrespective of the distance to the nearest repeater.
Nonetheless I contend that the alleged contravention did not
occur, because the signs fail to adequately convey the effect of
the traffic order. I have now discovered online that I can
actually pay £5 for a visitor's permit via the MiPermit app,
even though there are no signs indicating this on the road. If
the signs had informed me of the availability of a visitor's
parking permit, I would have bought one at the time and the CEO
would have found a record thereof on his hand-held device.
As the authority has failed to bring this key aspect of the
traffic regulation order to the attention of motorists, the
authority has not discharged its duties under regulation 18(1)
of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England
and Wales) Regulations 1996, and it follows that the
contravention did not occur.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Of course the council will reject no matter what you say (you
should always assume it will be necessary to appeal to the
tribunal), but this is a contention that is at least arguable,
while what you've put in your formal representation is not.
#Post#: 27362--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: mang0
Date: June 24, 2024, 7:57 am
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Okay, bizarre situation now - [member=1]cp8759[/member] I took
your advice and sent a second representation in, fully
expecting, as you, that it would all be rejected.
I have just received the rejection HERE
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fN87eoGAzeNH9XezaeZkxwFEbswpKAsV/view?usp=drive_link<br
/>which as expected says "tough luck, you missed the signs and
we
think they were fine".
However, at the end of the letter, it says:
--- Quote ---
> ...the Penalty Charge Notice has been issued correctly and
your challenge has been rejected. As you have paid the Penalty
Charge Notice, no further action is required.
--- End Quote ---
Now - I have not paid the PCN at all! Do I need to get back to
them and explain this, or is this one of those situations where
ignorance is bliss and I take what they said and move on with my
life?
#Post#: 27365--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 24, 2024, 8:02 am
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Check the status of the PCN on their website. If they show it as
paid, then no Notice to Owner will be served.
#Post#: 27371--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: mang0
Date: June 24, 2024, 8:43 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Check the status of the PCN on their website. If they show it
as paid, then no Notice to Owner will be served.
>
--- End Quote ---
I can't seem to pull it up at all - SCREENSHOT
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E6bDbZMQe6FnRa6K1nEuubKtnD0iqaeB/view?usp=drive_link<br
/>here of the page.
Payment site:
HTML https://www.paynotice.co.uk/NEPP
PCN: II28201234
Reg: FA04BXB
"The combination of Penalty Charge Notice number and vehicle
registration could not be found. Please ensure that the details
you have entered are correct"
It seems like it has been wiped from their system?!
#Post#: 27375--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 24, 2024, 9:58 am
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I get the same result, so it looks as if they've cancelled the
PCN, lucky you !
Are you the V5 Registratiion Certificate holder for the car ?
They may play silly-buggers, so don't throw anything away yet.
#Post#: 27409--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: mang0
Date: June 24, 2024, 4:20 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> I get the same result, so it looks as if they've cancelled the
PCN, lucky you !
>
> Are you the V5 Registratiion Certificate holder for the car ?
They may play silly-buggers, so don't throw anything away yet.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully that is a ridiculous stroke of luck - or a friendly
employee who made a 'mistake' for me! I am indeed the V5 holder,
and I'll make sure to keep all paperwork long term anyway just
in case.
#Post#: 27410--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 24, 2024, 4:45 pm
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That is weird:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/MU5Gvpr.png
I'd write back on 14 November 2024 as follows:
[indent]
Dear North Essex Parking Partnership,
Many thanks for your letter of 24 June 2024. I never made any
payment in respect of this PCN, but I note the amount
outstanding is zero and I therefore take it that you have
cancelled the penalty.
Article 16 of GDPR states that:
"The data subject shall have the right to obtain from the
controller without undue delay the rectification of inaccurate
personal data concerning him or her. Taking into account the
purposes of the processing, the data subject shall have the
right to have incomplete personal data completed, including by
means of providing a supplementary statement."
I require you to amend your records to show that the penalty was
not paid, and was instead cancelled by the council.
If you do not accept that the penalty was cancelled and you are
convinced that the penalty was paid, please treat this as a
subject access request for any records you hold confirming that
I paid the penalty.
Yours faithfully
[/indent]
#Post#: 27701--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
DIR By: mang0
Date: June 27, 2024, 9:14 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> That is weird:
>
> I'd write back on 14 November 2024 as follows:
> <snip>
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks - yes I suppose that is the right thing to do, and once
it's that far down the line they can no longer do anything about
it anyway from what I understand. Have added a reminder to my
calendar for November!
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