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#Post#: 22272--------------------------------------------------
Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to change of
vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: i12b3
Date: May 13, 2024, 7:21 am
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I have been parking in Brent in front of my residence for the
last 15 years and have had the on road parking permit , I did a
change of vehicle on the new council parking website which they
outsourced to Ringo recently , the site is extremely user
unfriendly and changing a vehicle is not straight fwd at all ,
due to this once I made the change I sent an email to brent
parking as below and they replied that it was changed ok failing
to mention to me at that point these changes for some reason
will get reverted in 28 days back to the vehicle I no longer
have! After 28 days passed they issued me £65 fines for three
consecutive days. On the third day only I noticed only the
tickets on the screens and called them , it turned out the
correct process was to delete the old vehicle on the site and
add the new one , no where in the site this was mentioned in
fact they gave an option to change the vehicle and did not
clearly mention about the 28 day rule , I saw online on a
neighbourhood forum, a number of people complaining about the
same issue.
I appealed on the fine and the letter for all three fine has
come back rejecting the appeal. I had to pay the first one
because of the 14 day rule and fine going up I have two more to
pay but simply cannot afford it at the moment.
I think I could not have been more clearer in my email sent to
them and their reply was not clear, is there any way I can
contest this further ?
My email sent to them :
I want to register a new residential vehicle actually change my
current one from
XXXXXXX.
TO
XXXXXX
This is the only vehicle I have now. I changed it on the site
but I'm not sure if the change is permanent or not?
Please can you help me.
Regards
Their Reply:
Thank you for your email.
I can see from our system that you have been able to make your
purchase no online.
If you have any problems, please contact us on 0208-290-8300 and
pick option 3.
Apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.
Kind Regards
Permit Officer
NSL Part of Marston Holdings
on behalf Brent Council
www.Brent.gov.uk
I sent the above as evidence in the appeal but they rejected an
replied back with :
I write with reference to your recent correspondence received in
connection with the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). Your
informal challenge has been considered by this office in
accordance with the requirements of the Traffic Management Act
2004. After a careful consideration of the grounds you have made
and all other related circumstances, the decision has been made
not to cancel your PCN. The reason for the rejection may be
summarised as follows: The PCN was issued as the vehicle was
observed parked in a permit space or zone without a valid
virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit
where required. In your correspondence you have stated that your
vehicle has a valid permit to park. Please be advised that a
change of the vehicle registration in respect of a parking
permit is only valid for 28 days as per automatic message the
permit holder would have received after making the amendment.
After 28 days, the permit will revert back to the original
vehicle. A new permit was not obtained until 5th March 2024.
Information on parking permits can be found on your permit
account, on the Brent Council website
brent.gov.uk/parking
or by calling the permit section during the office hours on
020 8 290 8300
or by emailing
parking.permits@brent.gov.uk
A valid permit was not clearly displayed inside the vehicle at
the time of the contravention and no match was found for the
vehicle on the permit system. There is a high demand for permit
holder parking bays within the zone and therefore it is
necessary to keep these bays clear for valid permit holders who
clearly display a valid permit or have booked a valid permit
online (virtual permit). Only residents are able to book
residents parking permits and visitors parking permits, which
will allow them and visitors to park in the roads where parking
is permitted within the zone. Due consideration has been given
to the information provided, however, Brent Council is satisfied
that the PCN was correctly issued and that the contravention
occurred in this case. I have enclosed some photographs taken at
the time the contravention occurred for your information. You
may refer to
HTML https://brent.tarantoportal.com
to view all of the photographs taken of the contravention.
Please read and understand the following important information.
The discounted rate of (£65.00) will be accepted if payment is
received within 14 days from the date of this letter, thereafter
the full rate of (£130.00) will be due. If the PCN has not been
paid within 28 days from the date of the notice being issued the
Council will serve a Notice to Owner (NTO) to the DVLA
registered keeper of the vehicle. The form offers the DVLA
registered keeper the chance to make a formal representation or
pay the full charge of (£130.00). If your representation is
rejected at the NTO stage, the registered keeper may appeal
against the council`s decision on specified grounds within 28
days beginning with the date of service of the Rejection Notice
to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator. The Council’s
policy is to only consider one informal challenge. Therefore,
should further correspondence be received before a NTO has been
served, it may remain unanswered. If the PCN is paid in full
before the NTO is issued, the case will be closed and there will
no longer be a right to appeal further. How to pay •
Online at
www.brent.gov.uk/parking
. Please follow the online instructions. • By phone
0208 099 0700
using a debit or credit card. • By post Cheques must be
made out to London Borough of Brent and sent to London Borough
of Brent, Parking Services, PO Box 210, Sheffield, S98 1NE.
Please ensure that the PCN number and the vehicle registration
number are clearly written on the back of the cheque. • In
person By cash or card at the London Borough of Brent Car Pound
Marston NSL Car Pound, 10 Lumen Road, East Lane Business Park,
Wembley, HA9 7RE. The office is open between 9.30am and 7.00pm,
Monday to Friday. If you pay by cash, please ensure you obtain a
receipt. REMEMBER: YOU MUST ACT WITHIN 14 DAYS TO RECEIVE YOUR
DISCOUNT
I went to seek guidance and help about the confusing 28 day rule
and I was assured I had changed my reg correctly as per email
above, is there a case of misguiding or not correctly providing
information to the query asked? This has resulted in cost of
£195 to me , can I take up a claim against the company
outsourced to reply to query emails i.e 'NSL Part of Marston
Holdings' or is there a way to still avoid this fine even after
the council's rejection letter.
Any help or advise will be much appreciated , I have a few more
days until the 14 days is up for the other fines.
Regards
i12b3
#Post#: 22286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 13, 2024, 9:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP---you didn't get towed did you?
Was your vehicle moved between the 1st PCN and the last one?
If the vehicle was not moved then you have a defence of
continuous contravention. In other words it's all one infraction
not 3.
The Council has a duty to a resident of 15 years to act
properly--what you have received is a cut and paste response
without any real consideration.
If you took all reasonable steps to renew your permit the
Council should have explained they had issued a temporary one
(for 28days). If they made a mistake in the reissue then another
part of the Council i.e. the CEOs cannot take advantage by
issuing PCNs.
It looks like you have a Charge Certificate so post that up
along with the PCNs.
Mike
#Post#: 22719--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: i12b3
Date: May 16, 2024, 10:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike thanks for your reply , I didn't get towed ... the
vehicle was driven between the 1st & 2nd pcn in the weekend but
parked back in the same road .... I already had to pay the
fine for the first day (£65) as the letter came on 24th April so
the alleged contravention on 01/03 (Fri) is paid and then the
below 2 for 04/03 and 05/03 (Mon & Tues) are outstanding and due
(£130) by 19/05 and the vehical wasn't moved between the 2nd and
3rd PCN , the weekends there are no charges and I noticed the
tickets only on Tuesday 05/03.
The reason I didn't take any action after 01/03 as I stupidly
thought that I could rely on the above posted email as evidence
to quash this fine ,but clearly I was mistaken and this was only
properly sorted after a call to brent parking on 05/03
Please see below images of the fines /letters received for 04/03
and 05/03
HTML https://imgur.com/a/sj7urUe
In the above reply letter they argue that they notified me about
the 28 day rule via email , while that is true there was no
clear options on the website to make a permeant change which I
wanted to do and that is the reason why I emailed Brent parking
, their email reply is my original post which incorrectly
indicated that I made a correct changes, this is clearly
misleading and appears to be just a stock reply, I reached out
to them over the phone on Tuesday and a rude advisor was able to
talk me through on what to do i.e. delete the old vehicle and
add the new one but no where in the site or any email prior to
the appeal letter are there clear instructions on how to
permanently remove an old vehicle and add a new one...see
screenshot below from the site.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/bClSNG8
At this stage I want to know that the council state in their
letter that I have recourse to no further appeals but I want to
know if there is a way to challenge this based on the above
facts and evidence.
Thanks & Regards
i12b3
#Post#: 23255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 20, 2024, 3:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1725]i12b3[/member] it seems to me that you have
compelling reasons to pursue this, I would definitely wait for
the notice to owner. Let us know when you get it and I will
draft something for you.
#Post#: 23414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: i12b3
Date: May 21, 2024, 10:27 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=1725]i12b3[/member] it seems to me that you have
compelling reasons to pursue this, I would definitely wait for
the notice to owner. Let us know when you get it and I will
draft something for you.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you very much [member=1]cp8759[/member] ... I will post
here once I get the NTO.
I have never been to that stage with a council so want to know
if hey still do not accept the appeal at that stage does that
mean I have to pay the full £130 for each ? How long does it
take for the NTO to come through and does it show up negatively
in a mortgage application / credit check?
Regards
i2b3
#Post#: 23596--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 22, 2024, 1:28 pm
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Firstly nothing that might happen with a PCN can have any impact
whatsoever on your credit history or mortgage application, even
if you end up with the bailiffs at your door is still won't show
up on your credit history because your credit history is about
your ability to repay what you borrow, it has nothing to do with
your parking skills.
Also nothing you do at this stage is an appeal, it's just a
representation to the council. If your representations are
rejected at the NTO stage then you have a right to appeal to the
independent tribunal, the full process is explained here:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
The council has six months from the date of the contravention to
serve the NTO, but usually it's much quicker than that.
#Post#: 26550--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: i12b3
Date: June 18, 2024, 7:43 am
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Hi
I have now received the NTK for the two outstanding fines please
see below
04/03/24:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/GzOjpHi
05/03/24:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/WSQFGkJ
[member=1]cp8759[/member] can you please help me draft a
response , their refusal letter to the initial appeal is in the
above post
Facts of the matter:
1. I have parked on the same street since the past 15 years
always buying and paying for a residence parking permit ( I can
provide all the previous purchase evidence to support this
2. On Dec 23 my vehicle with a valid residence parking permit
was stolen , After I got my new vehicle I attempted to register
my new car in the system , the process was not straight forward
at all as Brent have recently outsourced their parking system to
Ringo. the issues faced by residence is well documented all over
social media and local community posts. I wrote to Ringo/ Brent
parking seeking help and confirmation weather I have done a
correct change of vehicle clearly stating in the email what I
wanted to do as shown in the post above.
3. Brent Parking replied with a stock reply which led me to
believe that I have applied the changes correctly.
4. Brent proceeded to issue me fines on consecutive days , in
their appeal response letter they have again sent a stock reply
that I was notified that the change of vehicle will expire after
28 days , while that is true that the information was sent to me
by email when I applied to change the vehicle the process to
remove an old vehicle and add a new one to get rid of this 28
day expiry is not clear on the site and I was only able to do it
after I called Brent, I work in IT and even I have struggled to
find the right information / steps to do this step on their site
.
5. My reason for email Brent parking was to get my new vehicle
added and not revert back to a vehicle I no longer have , Brent
have a duty of care to provide their customers with the right
information when an enquiry is made and on this occasion they
failed to do so and are attempting to fine me for it as well .
6. In addition to the residence permit I also have a valid
residence visitor parking permit and a blue badge for my
disabled son, had I known that the change wasn't permeant I
could have used any of these as well.
7. Three Fine were issued in total as a result of the
misinformation of brent parking , PCN was observed on 01/03 Fri
, I drove the vehicle on that day and appealed and upon refusal
I paid the fine of £65 for 01/03, I did not move the vehicle
between 04/03 and 05/03 and called up Brent on the 5th to sort
the matter out by phone when I noticed the 2 more PCNs on my car
window.
8. On the day for the issue of the fine I still had a valid
permit just not on the right vehicle as it reverted back after
28 days as mentioned above.
#Post#: 26622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 18, 2024, 4:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1725]i12b3[/member] you're going to have to do a bit of
evidence gathering, could you please make a google drive or
dropbox folder and upload:
1. All the previous receipts for your parking permits over the
past 15 years
2. Evidence that your previous vehicle was stolen
3. Screenshot evidence of the social media posts you mention
4. Your correspondence to Brent / Ringgo and their reply
5. Your representation and the council's reply
6. Your visitors' parking permit and the blue badge
7. Proof of payment for the PCN dated 1 March
Please make sure each document has a meaningful file name.
If you don't want to faff about redacting everything, you can
just share the link privately by PM'ing me.
Once I have everything in one place I'll be able to type
something up for you.
#Post#: 27347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: i12b3
Date: June 24, 2024, 4:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok thanks I will gather this and PM you
Thanks
#Post#: 27592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent Council Parking Charge 3 consecutive days due to
change of vehicle New RinGo site mess
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 26, 2024, 1:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1725]i12b3[/member] any update on this?
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