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#Post#: 22220--------------------------------------------------
PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: Driver86
Date: May 12, 2024, 5:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone...it was a cold wet night on 1st March and I was
out working as a courier. I parked in a loading bay at North End
Road to complete my deliveries to a block of flats. I was parked
there for about 20 minutes. When I returned to my car I was
stunned to get a PCN, especially as I had put a note on my
dashboard.
Here is the bay 4 N End Rd
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/hp6eUcz8Psi9EGJo7
The PCN has code 25 parked in a loading bay during restricted
hours without loading.
HTML https://ibb.co/VS4GJtD
I appealed the PCN, stating that I am a courier driver and that
I work alone, and could not risk leaving my windows/doors
unlocked and open for the benefit of a CEO or a thief. I
highlighted that I had left a message on my dashboard and I used
the bay within the restrictions as stated on the sign plate.
I was also unable to obtain delivary confirmation due to GDPR,
which I advice the LA.
Brent responded to my appeal on 2nd May, here is their reply
HTML https://ibb.co/smYWJ8b
HTML https://ibb.co/QrcM5nK
To summarise they state
●the bays are only for delivering to locations next to the
bay
●PCN would be issued if no evidence of loading is
observed.
The CEO observed my vehicle for 6 minutes out of the 40 the
signage permits. Do I have any grounds to keep fighting this?
#Post#: 22250--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 13, 2024, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, of course their letter is complete tosh, (no surprise
there !). However the key question is - did you provide any
collateral with your representations like a delivery schedule,
proof of employment as a delivery driver etc ?
It would also help if you posted your representation text.
It should be reasonably easy to overturn this, assuming you have
some collateral as above, but as they've rejected your informal
reps, the next stage is the Notice to Owner if you are prepared
to take this further. The NtO is sent to the name and address on
the V5. So, are you the owner of the vehicle and is it your
name and address on the V5 Registration Certificated, and is it
up=to-date ?
#Post#: 22322--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: Driver86
Date: May 13, 2024, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes I submitted my insurance schedule. Unable to obtain proof of
specific delivary info.
Here is my informal rep:
I am challenging this PCN as I do not believe that the
contravention occurred. I am a courier driver and vehicle is
classed as a commercial vehicle. Please see attached document. I
am unable to provide delivary information as that is
confidential relating to a customer and restricted by GDPR. I
used the loading bay for a maximum of 20 minutes to complete my
deliveries. I work alone and therefore I am unable to leave my
vehicle unlocked with doors and windows open whilst I deliver
the parcels. However, as can be seen in the enforcement officers
photos, I left a note on my front dashboard windscreen
indicating that I am currently making deliveries. The signage,
as can be seen next to the bay and photo taken by your
enforcement officer, clearly states "loading only 40 minutes, no
return within 2 hours". Therefore I am uncertain which rule I am
alleged to have contravened. The CEO observed my vehicle for 6
minutes. The enforcement officer alleges I was parked outside of
restricted hours, but there are no restricted hours stated on
the sign plate. It is therefore wholly unreasonable for the
Local Authority to continue pursuing this and should take the
appropriate action to cancel this PCN.
#Post#: 22336--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 13, 2024, 5:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't think what you have provided proves you were delivering.
You need something much more positive, and that has to be either
a schedule of your deliveries, but without specific addressees.
A contract with the delivery company would also help, or a
letter confirming you were delivering that day. Sorry, but you
have to convince the council you really were in that bay for
delivery purposes.
#Post#: 23056--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 19, 2024, 7:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=73]Driver86[/member] this is easily winnable but we need
to substantiate your representations for the next stage.
Firstly, please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and repost the PCN without any redactions.
Secondly, who do you work for? Amazon? Evri? Whatever company it
is that pays you, you must have some documentation confirming
you actually work as a courier. A work schedule would help, or
even something confirming you were paid for work done on that
day.
Also if you have any correspondence (emails, whatsapp messages,
text messages, whatever) showing that you tried to get delivery
information but this was refused because of GDPR, copies of that
correspondence would be important supporting evidence.
Lastly do you remember roughly how many deliveries there were,
and which buildings they were in?
#Post#: 35109--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: Driver86
Date: August 30, 2024, 4:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone, so i have a response back from them regarding this
Loading bay contravention. The enforcement team are fixated on
getting the customers home address which seems to be the block
to overturning this. I did manage to get a letter from the
courier service owners(Amazon) confirming I was on a delivary
block, and that they can not provide addresses. Links below and
left details to locate PCN if required. Feedback appreciated.
NOR
HTML https://ibb.co/XsCGQ3z
HTML https://ibb.co/ZgZ3PMp
HTML https://ibb.co/CWhrGZm
Letter evidence
HTML https://ibb.co/VWbPSZD
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=73]Driver86[/member] this is easily winnable but we
need to substantiate your representations for the next stage.
>
> Firstly, please read the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>and repost the PCN without any redactions.
>
> Secondly, who do you work for? Amazon? Evri? Whatever company
it is that pays you, you must have some documentation confirming
you actually work as a courier. A work schedule would help, or
even something confirming you were paid for work done on that
day.
>
> Also if you have any correspondence (emails, whatsapp
messages, text messages, whatever) showing that you tried to get
delivery information but this was refused because of GDPR,
copies of that correspondence would be important supporting
evidence.
>
> Lastly do you remember roughly how many deliveries there were,
and which buildings they were in?
>
--- End Quote ---
I used the loading bay to deliver to 3 locations, one of them
being the building on that side of the bay.
#Post#: 35115--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 31, 2024, 2:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Procedural impropriety of the worst kind IMO.
1. A NOR is the end of the council's involvement in considering
any reps. It does not lie with them to offer to reconsider as
they've stated.
2. The NOR does not contain the correct mandatory info regarding
the form and manner in which an appeal may be made. Specifically
it omits the highlighted part of the following:
(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made within—
(a)the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of
the decision notice under regulation 6(4)(b) which states that
the enforcement authority does not accept the recipient’s
representations, or
(b)such longer period as the adjudicator may allow.
3. Not only is this vital information omitted, the authority
reinforce the impropriety by stating the following which is
found in lines 4 and 5 of the last para. on page 2 of the NOR:
'...penalty charge may increase by 50%. At this stage you would
have missed the opportunity to appeal.'
What arrogance, it's breathtaking. The adjudicator may and often
does accept appeals made even after a charge cert has been
issued.
4. The council's threat to apply for costs. This is intimidating
in that they are effectively trying to limit the scope and
content of any appeal. OP, I've referred to this as point 4
because you could then use it to lead in to ..'as regards the
issue of costs, you would respectfully ask the adjudicator for a
steer as regards any application that you might make given the
cumulative effect of the improprieties detailed above..'
OP, when and how did you submit reps against the NTO - you've
skipped this step in the thread? You should aim to register your
appeal no later than 13 Sept.
#Post#: 35629--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council (Adjudication
stage)
DIR By: Driver86
Date: September 4, 2024, 10:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> OP, when and how did you submit reps against the NTO - you've
skipped this step in the thread? You should aim to register your
appeal no later than 13 Sept.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for the feedback. I did think there was alot of arrogance
in there too! I submitted the formal rep in June I believe. At
the time I was on holiday whilst awaiting a Subject Access
Request with Amazon which unfortunately didn't yield anything I
can use. So requested they confirm my schedule for the day.
I'll start drafting up an appeal to take to adjudication in the
coming days.
#Post#: 36262--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: Driver86
Date: September 9, 2024, 4:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've drafted up a rep for adjudication...
I am submitting this representation on the grounds that I do not
believe the contravention occurred for the following reasons:
The vehicle was parked and made use of the loading bay at 20:11,
as I believe I was entitled to do so. I am a courier driver
working for Amazon’s “flex” programme, and therefore I am a 3rd
party contractor.
Here is an image of the restriction I am alleged to have
contravened.
<image of signage>
Being a private contractor, I therefore do not have access to
Amazon’s internal customer database, and any request for this
information is restricted by GDPR, which the enforcement
authority appears to dismiss.
I have, however, provided the enforcement authority with
information detailing that in between the hours of 19:00 and
21:00 I was on a shift making deliveries. I also explained to
the enforcement authority that as I work alone, I cannot leave
my vehicle’s windows and doors unlocked for the consideration of
a CEO with the risk of theft.
Furthermore, I have reason to believe there is procedural
impropriety on behalf of the authority Notice to Owner.
The NOR does not contain the correct mandatory info regarding
the form and manner in which an appeal may be made. Specifically
it omits the highlighted part of the following:
(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made within—
(a)the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of
the decision notice under regulation 6(4)(b) which states that
the enforcement authority does not accept the recipient’s
representations, or
(b)such longer period as the adjudicator may allow.
3. Not only is this vital information omitted, the authority
reinforce the impropriety by stating the following which is
found in lines 4 and 5 of the last para. on page 2 of the NOR:
'...penalty charge may increase by 50%. At this stage you would
have missed the opportunity to appeal.'
Please advise what else I can add to stregnthen?
#Post#: 36450--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for using Loading Bay from Brent Council
DIR By: Driver86
Date: September 11, 2024, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all, just a bit worried that with deadline coming up if
someone with experience can look over?
What would be ideal reps for this, a telephone hearing or submit
written?
Thanks!
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