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#Post#: 22175--------------------------------------------------
Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: let1less
Date: May 12, 2024, 7:59 am
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YD 17344511A WJ13FMO
A family member has received a PCN
HTML http://i.imgur.com/YI39UPh.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/YI39UPh
HTML http://i.imgur.com/VfOlLuz.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/VfOlLuz
on 4/5/2024 while parking to go to work
at this location
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/GgMNKzpec8gnd1k58
they normally park in this area but unfortunately fell foul of
this
code 26, " Parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm
from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated
parking place.
i have lived in this area for over 50 years and have never heard
about this "Special enforcement area" but on further
investigation have found two signs which are at the two main
entrances to this area , here
HTML http://i.imgur.com/Ne9ydFD.png
HTML https://imgur.com/Ne9ydFD
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/4SRNu6kSwUgg9yYs9
and here
HTML http://i.imgur.com/w48cHi6.png
HTML https://imgur.com/w48cHi6
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/SxHrNzoT6RU3gBX6A
But there is another way into this so called "enforcement area"
here
HTML http://i.imgur.com/M44zIZ3.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/M44zIZ3
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/be33h3Zmc2yMRBDj9
we live on the side of town were you would use the entrance into
Rundle Road and as you can see there are no signs informing you
of the enforcement area,
also on the PCN the location specifies that the car was parked
in Seymour Road which is wrong they were parked in Rundle Road.
Also at the location in question there is a deep gulley were you
have to be careful not to get your wheel in or you can bottom
out your car quite easily, these images don't do it justice.
HTML http://i.imgur.com/lTw1HX7.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/lTw1HX7
HTML http://i.imgur.com/dF0Dkse.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/dF0Dkse
HTML http://i.imgur.com/J3F8TN8.jpg
HTML https://imgur.com/J3F8TN8
so therefore where is the actual edge of the road, now
admittedly they could of got a bit closer than they did, but
having been stuck in this gulley before they have possibly been
more careful and kept out a bit too much.
So therefore my question is do we have a case to appeal,
-
1. on lack of signage.
2. wrong location.
3. cant determine where the edge of the road is.
#Post#: 22178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 12, 2024, 8:56 am
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OP-I've attached the Council's photos:-
Mike
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 22182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: May 12, 2024, 10:01 am
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GSV suggests that the vehicle was (only just) in Seymour Road?
HTML https://tinyurl.com/42krm8um
#Post#: 22185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: May 12, 2024, 10:28 am
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The law does not require any signage so that is a losing
argument. Your best bet if the location is correct, might be to
argue that the edge of the carriageway is not where the stone
wall is because there is a drainage gulley between your car and
the wall that is mostly hidden by debris and vegetation. The
edge of the carriageway is next to the gulley and you do not
believe that the rear wheel of your car is more than 50cm away
from the edge of the carriageway/gulley and if the council
disagree ask them to provide evidence that the CEO measured the
distance between the rear wheel of your car and the edge because
it only takes a CEO judgement error of 1mm for the contravention
to have not occurred.
#Post#: 22186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: let1less
Date: May 12, 2024, 11:01 am
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--- Quote from: baroudeur link ---
>
> GSV suggests that the vehicle was (only just) in Seymour Road?
>
>
HTML https://tinyurl.com/42krm8um
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for your reply barouder, would wrong location be a
defense, because if you travel further up the hill there is a
property
on the left with the address 9 Rundle Rd, then you also come to
the white line junction with Seymour Rd which goes left to
right.
#Post#: 22187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: let1less
Date: May 12, 2024, 11:06 am
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--- Quote from: Phantomcrusader link ---
>
> The law does not require any signage so that is a losing
argument. Your best bet if the location is correct, might be to
argue that the edge of the carriageway is not where the stone
wall is because there is a drainage gulley between your car and
the wall that is mostly hidden by debris and vegetation. The
edge of the carriageway is next to the gulley and you do not
believe that the rear wheel of your car is more than 50cm away
from the edge of the carriageway/gulley and if the council
disagree ask them to provide evidence that the CEO measured the
distance between the rear wheel of your car and the edge because
it only takes a CEO judgement error of 1mm for the contravention
to have not occurred.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you also Phantomcrusader
I might go around tonight and mark with some chalk 50cm, take
some photo's and see what it looks like,
I also notice there is a plastic bollard lying in the gutter,
which looks like was in the ground further out.
#Post#: 22188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: May 12, 2024, 11:13 am
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If the location on the PCN is wrong it would kill the penalty
dead. The council will have a mapping system so include in your
challenge that you believe you were parked inside the boundary
of Rundle Road and not in Seymour Road and again, if they
disagree require them to provide evidence from their mapping
system that the location falls under Seymour Road.
When you challenge make sure you upload any photos that support
your challenge such as ones that show the hidden gulley and worn
edge of carriageway and a ruler on the carriageway illustarting
what 50cm from the edge looks like compared to where your rear
wheel was.
#Post#: 22652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 15, 2024, 6:25 pm
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[member=1676]let1less[/member] the location is definitely wrong:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/8cWFk9E.png
Draft representation:
[indent]
Dear Devon County Council,
My car was not parked on Seymour Road, my car was parked outside
13 Rundle Road, before getting to Seymour Road one would have to
go past my car, then past 13 Rundle Road, 11 Rundle Road, then
9A Rundle Road, and one would then find the junction between
Rundle Road and Seymour Road. In fact I was parked some 240 feet
from the junction with Seymour Road.
It follows that no contravention could have occurred on Seymour
Road, therefore the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Make sure to send this online and keep a screenshot of the
confirmation page.
#Post#: 22684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 16, 2024, 6:26 am
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If Rundle and Seymour are entered separately into GSV neither
gets highlighted.
The road markings aren't definitive sadly - have similar
examples in my area.
However, Postcode Finder does list the various flats in Somerset
Lodge under Rundle, not Seymour.
I'd cut and paste from this official record to support or lead
the argument because the council's likely to argue the toss
regarding GSV alone.
#Post#: 22742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Devon County Council - Newton Abbot - PCN Code 26
DIR By: let1less
Date: May 16, 2024, 2:44 pm
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can i appeal with multiple points, such as wrong location and
also measurement from wrong starting point. ie ( edge of road ).
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