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#Post#: 22153--------------------------------------------------
Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: May 11, 2024, 12:52 pm
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LJ28457133 EF61 MVX
I have just received this PCN today. It is dated 29/4/24
As this is a Camera enforcement, it seems that I do not have the
right to make an informal appeal
As the PCN has taken an inordinate amount of time to arrive, it
does not give me much time to pay the discount rate or to make
representations within 14 days
To wit, I thought that the 14-day grace period for paying the
discount rate began when the PCN was served. This PCN states ‘If
the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14
days beginning with the date of the notice, …’
As for the circumstances, I am perplexed. I do not remember
driving down this road nearly 2 weeks ago. These are school
street restrictions. The school is on the left behind a fence
next to a gap in parked cars
My child went to school there for many years though there were
no restrictions in place at the time. It seems that I was in a
habit of driving down Wolfington Rd after school without issue
As one can see, the entire area is clear, pupils and parents
long gone home as the school day ends at 15.10h. The area is
usually packed with kids and carers. Perhaps this lulled me into
a sense of ‘all clear’. Had I seen children, it might have
clicked my memory about the new road restrictions. Or, perhaps,
I thought the restrictions ended at 15.30h. I can’t figure it
out. Not remembering the moment or where I was going does not
help
At any rate, I seem to have been complacent. I have a lifelong
habit of driving down that road. I support the school streets
idea and would not have intentionally disregarded the new signs
Nonetheless, I would rather not pay a penalty. Any suggestions
on how or if to appeal this will be appreciated. I do not hold
out much hope
Thank you for your time
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HTML https://i.imgur.com/qVDoaNq.png
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEAu_Ol68w
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#Post#: 22156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 11, 2024, 1:49 pm
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OP--you look bang to rights so you would have to determine if
there are flaws in the documentation or the signage.
Here's the Notice:-
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4234296
Note where it says:-
although in practice it is anticipated that the zones will only
operate during these hours in school term-time
I would get hold of the Order to see if that statement is there
too. Not "anticipated" but more precise or stronger i.e. "term
times only".
If so there could be a case that there is a failure to comply
with the Regulation 18 duty of LATOR 1996 because a very
significant part of the information as to the effect of the
Order has not been conveyed to road users by the sign in situ.
And this is the case I would use in support:-
Case Details
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Reasons
Regulation 18 of the Local Authorities' Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 (“Regulation
18) reads, as far as is relevant:
“Traffic signs
18 (1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure
(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near
the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order
making authority may consider requisite for securing that
adequate information as to the effect of the order is made
available to persons using the road;
(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force…”
In R v. Bus Lane Adjudicator ex parte Nottingham City Council
[2017] EWHC 430 (Admin) Lang J observed at [38]:
“It is well-established that a failure to comply with the
regulation 18 duty as to signage is a proper ground on which an
adjudicator may allow an appeal against the issue of a penalty
charge notice on the ground that the alleged contravention of
the relevant traffic regulation order did not occur. (See R
(London Borough of Camden) v. The Parking Adjudicator [2011]
EWHC 295 (Admin), per Burnett J. at [50] – [51]).”
By contrast to typical traffic management orders (TMOs) that
create a prohibition on motor vehicles on school streets during
the beginning and end of the school day, the TMO in this case
makes express reference to the term times of the relevant school
in its wording. The provision states (with my underlining):
"“No person shall cause any motor vehicle to enter the section
of Elsworthy Road which lies between the south-western kerb line
of Primrose Hill Road and the northeastern kerb line of
Elsworthy Rise between 8.30 and 9.30am and between 3 and 4pm on
Mondays to Fridays during school term times”.
The effect of the TMO is limited temporally not merely by the
time of day, or the day of the week, but - expressly - by
whether the day falls within a school term.
The signage, however, informs road users only of the first two
of those three temporal restrictions on the prohibition on motor
vehicles. It fails to convey to road users the very significant
information that the prohibition does not apply during school
holidays which, as the EA's own evidence demonstrates, comprise
several weeks of the year.
This is different to the position in respect of the 'typical'
school street TMO which makes no reference to term times but is
simply not enforced during school holidays. In this case, the EA
chose to create, as part of the terms of the TMO, a temporal
restriction on the prohibition by reference to term times.
Consequently, there was a clear failure to comply with the
Regulation 18 duty because a very significant part of the
information as to the effect of the TMO was not conveyed to road
users by the relevant signage in place on the occasion in
question.
In those circumstances the alleged contravention is not proved.
-------------------------------
Mike
#Post#: 22172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: May 12, 2024, 6:51 am
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Thank you very much for your reply
Excuse my ignorance, but I am not sure where to get ahold of
this Order? Do I have time?
I have emailed Trafficorders@lambeth.gov.uk as directed on
www.lambeth.gov.uk/traffic-management-orders. I will see if and
when I get a reply
According to the PCN, dated 3/5, I have only 6 more days to get
the discount rate. I still am curious about the chock starting
to tick 'beginning with the date on the note'; I thought a
certain amount of days were given for service (in this case, 8
days)
The only Lambeth Traffic Order than I could find online is:
HTML https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/REF-15-Prescribed-routes-DRAFT-Order.pdf<br
/> This specifically mentions St Matthews Rd, not Wolfington Rd
where my alleged contravention is located. I cannot locate the
TO specifically written to cover Wolfington Rd
HTML https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-01/Ref00-moving-traffic-DRAFT-order.pdf<br
/>This is not a TO, as such, but very generic (and rambling),
though Wolfington is mention in the alphabetical list at the end
They both states Draft order, if relevant
It is not clear how I might be able to use the information in
the Gazette article
Clearly the sign does not mention anything about school 'term
times only'. If the Wolfington Rd TO does not, your Case
reference 2230471029 seems perfectly applicable
Thank you
#Post#: 22179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: May 12, 2024, 9:11 am
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--- Quote from: gumph69 link ---
>
> According to the PCN, dated 3/5, I have only 6 more days to
get the discount rate. I still am curious about the chock
starting to tick 'beginning with the date on the note'; I
thought a certain amount of days were given for service (in this
case, 8 days)
>
--- End Quote ---
You are mistaken. The last day for payment at the discount rate
is the 16th May.
03/05/2024 = Friday = Day 1 of 14 day discount window
16/05/2024 = Thursday = Day 14 of 14 day discount window.
I would submit your best shot at representations using their
online form before close of business on the 16th, preferably the
day before. If they reject they probably will, but are not
obliged to, re-offer the discount window.
PS
Is there a postmark on the envelope?
#Post#: 22181--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: May 12, 2024, 9:44 am
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Thanks, Enceladus
That only leaves me 3-4 days, doubltfully enough time to get the
Order back from Lambeth
I must be mistaken about the discount period starting on the
date of service as opposed to date of issue
What is the argument for the representations?
No postmark-UK Mail
#Post#: 22209--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 12, 2024, 4:40 pm
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--- Quote from: gumph69 link ---
>
> I thought that the 14-day grace period for paying the discount
rate began when the PCN was served.
>
--- End Quote ---
It depends on the legislation, under this particular Act of
Parliament the discount period is 14 days from the date of the
notice.
At this point the representation is only there to buy us some
time, so it hardly matters what you say as long as you avoid
anything self-incriminating.
Something like this should suffice:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Lambeth,
I challenge liability on the basis that the signage does not
comply with regulation 18(1) of The Local Authorities' Traffic
Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
It follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Hopefully by the time you get the notice of rejection, we will
have the traffic order. The notice of rejection should reoffer
the discount for a further 14 days from the date of service of
that notice, so we'll have a bit of time to consider next steps.
#Post#: 22210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: May 12, 2024, 4:46 pm
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Thank you, Wizard, as always
I will wait until the day before the deadline and send that in.
Lambeth may surprise me and get the Order returned by Wednesday
Stay well
#Post#: 24495--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: May 30, 2024, 1:07 pm
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I have just received the attached rejection of my
representations
Lambeth has re-offered the discount for 14 days dated from 28/5
The letter mentions, in bold, that 'It is only enforced during
the school term times' though they do not address the fact that
this information does not appear on the applicable signs
The letter later claims that 'our signs are compliant and
stipulate the restriction information'
I made a Request for Traffic Order 2022 under sections 6 and 124
of and Part IV of Schedule 9 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act
1984. School Streets on 12/ and 24/5. I have not had a response
HTML https://ibb.co/KyM3VG2
Thank you
#Post#: 24770--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: gumph69
Date: June 2, 2024, 4:52 pm
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Is there anyway to accelerate the process of getting the TO that
I have requested from the Council? Can I go in person, for
example?
I am conscious of the discount period ending 11 June
#Post#: 24774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pedestrian Zone-camera enforcement
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 2, 2024, 5:42 pm
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You have the right in law to go to the council offices and ask
to see the relevant traffic order. Of course the law is in the
Dark Ages, but most councils have the TOs on e-records as it
greatly assists with their own admin. So you could ask to be
provided with a e-copy. It is something I have never done. Our
administrator cp8759 seems to be able to get them reasonably
quickly.
The real problem we see on this forum is peoples worries about
the discount. If you have a strong case it is surely irrelevant
?
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