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#Post#: 22084--------------------------------------------------
Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: Simon321456
Date: May 10, 2024, 10:56 am
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Good afternoon
First post, so thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time
to read and/or reply
Apologies in advance also if I've raised incorrectly or am
missing anything
I've received a charge for having 'building materials' on the
'highway'
We do not have a front garden and as opposed to leaving the
building materials on the pavement, obstructing what is a busy
street (school & nursery nearby) the materials were left on the
road, in front of my house and where I would normally park my
car (that I have a paid-for residents permit for)
Letter below
I haven't received any warnings or notifications, this is the
first I've heard of it. Its not addressed to me by name, just to
my street address.
Do I have any options here pls?
Thanks in advance
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1auzmAn.png
#Post#: 22090--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: slapdash
Date: May 10, 2024, 12:28 pm
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Some unknown person should have applied for a license to store
building materials. It seems that random person didn't. Maybe it
was me renovating a house a bit down the road
Currently the authoriry have taken umbage and decided to invoice
the fee to a property under threat of enforcement via their debt
recovery.
It is somewhat unclear as to how they can successfully take out
any form of civil claim against that entity.
They might be quite pleased if somebody said to them "I got it
delivered".
If the property failed to respond, which unless it suddenly
gains some form of sentience it would be the case then they need
to find some way of assigning culpability to an individual. Once
they have done that an owner or occupier might have a better
idea of how to react.
#Post#: 22100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 10, 2024, 3:36 pm
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An invoice made out to 'Whom it may concern'. Worth saving for
the grandchildren!
Anyway, 'the materials were left on the road,', but by whom were
they left?
If you, then (and there's no point dancing around this) you've
been very foolish because you need a licence AND insurance cover
for this, B&H Council refer to £10 million, and your home
insurer would disclaim any liability. Frankly, the parking
suspension issue is of secondary importance. If there's a fatal
or serious accident which occurs because of this you could lose
your house.
If by a contractor on your behalf, then they should know better.
B&H refer to 'professional' contractors knowing what's required,
and they do. So who was used?
This is very serious and potentially financially devastating for
you, or whoever was the person who commissioned this act.
But if a licence is held then the issue is parking suspension.
But there couldn't/shouldn't be a licence without a suspension?!
If you had any hand in this then IMO get it moved. At least
check if whoever left the materials has a licence from the
council for this purpose.
#Post#: 22104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 10, 2024, 3:55 pm
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Interesting but their request for money is complete balls.
They have to take action under the TMA 2004 which leads to a
fixed penalty notice after a request to clear the highway is
ignored.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/part/5/crossheading/skips-scaffolding-building-materials-and-excavations-charges-for-occupation-of-highway-etc
Mike
#Post#: 22124--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: Simon321456
Date: May 11, 2024, 4:33 am
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[member=59]slapdash[/member] that is an absolutely outstanding
response. Splendid work
[member=428]H C Andersen[/member] Somebody has moved the
materials now, yes. I can swear in court that I did not leave
the materials there but I would wager that nobody applied for
any permits, licences or insurance
What would you fine folk say my next action is, do nothing? The
letter gives a deadline of 15th by which to make payment but of
course, it isn't addressed to anyone
[member=17]MMV Redux[/member] cheers for that but would you mind
highlighting where on that page refers to a penalty notice AFTER
a request to move? This is the first and only thing that we've
been sent
But interestingly, I was chatting to a neighbour who had a loft
conversion done and they had building materials in the road
outside their house too. In their case, the council called the
trader's (had a sign up) and gave them 24hrs notice to shift it
before they'd issue a fine
#Post#: 22130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: slapdash
Date: May 11, 2024, 5:18 am
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Realistically I think the householders options are either:-
- Send some money
- Totally ignore it
I would expect the latter to possibly generate some noise.
If the householder happens to be involved in any way lying to
the authority may be a bad move. Equally they may want to
consider that forums posts are not unknown to be used in both
civil and criminal proceedings. It may be the case that an
appropriately framed enquiry could be used to force disclosure
of an account owner.
What (if anything) is received next should govern action. But
until they move from fishing to something specific, perhaps
making an actual allegation against an individual under some
regulation I would do nothing.
(The next stage might be the issue of an invoice to whoever
happens to be the council tax payer at some property close to
the materials. I fail to see any contractual relationship).
#Post#: 22140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 11, 2024, 7:31 am
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OP--This one should give you an idea of the process to be
undertaken by the Council:-
HTML https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/news/feb-2023/seven-kings-resident-hammered-with-court-fine-after-illegally-storing-building-materials-on-road/
Your Council have tried to dun money through an abuse of
process:-
1) It was never anything to do with a parking bay
suspension--come on!
2) Their calculation of the amount due using a spurious bay
suspension is risible.
3) They have a duty to act properly using the appropriate
legislation --they haven't.
4) Their intention to use debt recovery processes on non payment
is likewise ultra vires.
5) A licence usually costs £50-£100 for a number of days--so IMO
that amounts to the Council's loss albeit without the penal
element of a FPN.
But we obviousy have a "fishing" letter to identify the
"miscreants" so my view is that you clear the highway asap and
wait for any follow up.
Since the "fishing" letter isn't an instruction to clear the
highway then any FPN is stymied IMO.
If you do pay anything I would report the Council to the LA
Ombudsman on the basis of maladministration. They are,in my
view,in abuse of process by ignoring their responsibilities
under the TMA ect legislation to process a FPN and even more so
by inventing a fairy story on costs.
In all of this, pay close attention to what HCA says, he used to
be a senior Council official.
Mike
#Post#: 22143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 11, 2024, 9:58 am
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OP, is the letter addressed to a person by name or an address?
Your posts do not suggest that a licence to deposit materials
had been obtained therefore I assume one was not.
I am shocked by the letter. As I posted, unauthorised - and
therefore by definition unsafe - deposits on the highway are
potentially lethal. A council officer from the highways
authority should have been knocking on doors to find out what's
what and then taken proportionate action. But to tacitly allow
the obstruction to continue providing that someone paid for a
parking bay suspension is as laughable as it is worrying.
The council's 'debt recovery procedure' won't do anything
without a name and unless you personally deposited the materials
then it cannot be you.
#Post#: 22183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: Phantomcrusader
Date: May 12, 2024, 10:06 am
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The letter completely fails to advise what law has been
allegedly contravened. Require the council to identify the law
they accuse you of having contravened and to point you in the
direction of where the fees they seek are prescribed in law.
They cannot charge unless the law allows them to.
#Post#: 22189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 12, 2024, 12:23 pm
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Sorry phantomcrusader---no contact!. The Council don't know and
the OP won't tell!
Mike
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