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#Post#: 21829--------------------------------------------------
PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: estevenin
Date: May 8, 2024, 8:28 am
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Hi all,
First message in the new forum, RIP to Pepipoo.
I was driving a hired car back in January and just got informed
that I got a bus lane PCN, by the hire company. The company
appealed in order to transfer liability to myself, however the
council refused, saying that the keeper is responsible, and they
have no obligation to transfer it to the driver.
I understand that the idea of doing that, is that they know that
the company will pay and charge the driver.
But my question is... is that really legal ? It was always my
understanding that the driver was always responsible for
whatever breach of the highway code.
Below is the PCN and the Response, waiting for an advice before
I call up the hire company (I know that the dates are quite
back, I'v just received that from them in early April, and as I
have moved house, I didn't receive the first communication). I'm
not sure yet if they have already paid, if I go online, the
payment option is still "available", but I will ask them.
Just wanted to know if yes or no the council is allowed to do
that ?
Thank you all for your knowledge.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/tLGXsd5/Merton-PCN-Copie.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/B4tcj84/Merton-Rep-Copie.jpg
#Post#: 21837--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: guest17
Date: May 8, 2024, 10:40 am
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OP---if this is London then the Council are correct. With a hire
car and a bus lane contravention there is no facility to
transfer liability to the driver,
The best you can do is ask the hire company to allow you to
contest the PCN on its behalf.
Before that let's have details of your agreement, length and
general terms etc.
Mike
#Post#: 21872--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 8, 2024, 5:00 pm
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Yes as per MM. Be good to get this to the Tribunal.
#Post#: 21876--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 8, 2024, 5:10 pm
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OP, read up on this on the tribunal website:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/bus-lane-pcn-enforcement-process
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/grounds-appeal/grounds-appeal-bus-lanes
('you' being the registered keeper)
#Post#: 21884--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 8, 2024, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Op knows all this as he won the famous key case v Ealing in
November 2022.
#Post#: 22004--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: estevenin
Date: May 9, 2024, 5:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
Thank you for your kind contributions. I'm surprised and not
surprised to hear that at the same time...
I have phoned the hire company, and they said that after the
first challenge, they have paid it anyway. So it's game over,
there won't be any NOR coming their way.
They also mentionned that usually the PCN gets passed on to the
driver, but for some reason this time around they refused...
Perhaps Merton council has recognized my name indeed ;D
Such a shame, this was again a useless PCN, 20 meters into the
lane before a left turn...
They'v won for this time.
Thank you all again.
#Post#: 22044--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 10, 2024, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hang on a minute. Why was it not passed onto the driver? This
is not acceptable. What do the T and Cs say?
#Post#: 22093--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: estevenin
Date: May 10, 2024, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This PCN was issued back in January, they visibly challenged
saying "I was not the driver" and passed on my details. The
council responded late march (2 and a half months later it
seems), after that the Hire company paid the fine, and sent a
communication to me early April, then another mid April, and
finally another one end of April, to recover that 65GBP amount
from me.
I just got informed of those now from the previous occupier in
my other house, as I'm in between 2 moves. That beeing said you
are right, I was only made aware of this officially early april
by post, after their challenge, and their payment. Even if I had
received the first mail, it would have been too late.
I believe that in general, the fine is just passed on to the
driver for him to deal with it, and they are not used to the
council refusing to do it.
As for the T&Cs, I don't have the paper right now it's in my
boxes I'll get them back by the end of the month, but I suspect
that you might be right, that this should not have been paid
before my consent. The contrary is nevertheless possible, I have
used a company before that had as a policy to pay the fine
regardless, then bill it back to the driver.
I can check for informative purposes in 2 weeks when I get them
back, but I won't get into conflict with this company as it's
not just a simple hire company, their are a claim company that
are handeling my claim against an insurance company after one of
their client hit me on the back. They gave me a car back then,
whilst mine was to be repaired (but ended up written off).
#Post#: 22095--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 10, 2024, 1:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Who is 'they'?
If the authority, there's no provision for them dealing other
than with the RK.
If the hirer, then what options are easily accessible to the OP?
I believe that in general, the fine is just passed on to the
driver for him to deal with it, and they are not used to the
council refusing to do it.
Really. The person to whom the PCN and Enforcement Notices are
sent is always liable, the only role for the driver would be to
make reps on behalf of the RK, not to become the person liable.
#Post#: 22645--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 34J - Bus Lane Hartfield Road. Council refuses to
transfer liability to the driver ?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 15, 2024, 5:11 pm
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--- Quote from: estevenin link ---
>
> I have phoned the hire company, and they said that after the
first challenge, they have paid it anyway. So it's game over,
there won't be any NOR coming their way.
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=1682]estevenin[/member] so they didn't have to pay it
but have chosen to do so of their own volition. Sounds like a
commercial decision by them, nothing to do with you and you
cannot be held liable.
If they ask you to pay I'd tell them to take a hike. I'll be
more than happy to act as your McKenzie friend on this one if
necessary.
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