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#Post#: 23850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: Hashim
Date: May 25, 2024, 6:00 am
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Thanks
would really appreciate this...
#Post#: 24114--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 2:43 pm
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[member=43]MrChips[/member] [member=354]Hashim[/member] the
deadline for representations is midnight on 30 May.
#Post#: 24122--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: MrChips
Date: May 27, 2024, 3:07 pm
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Thanks, hoping to draft something tonight/tomorrow morning.
#Post#: 24141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: MrChips
Date: May 27, 2024, 3:50 pm
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Hashim, here's my draft. I decided not to include the box
position argument as I think it's not going to be a winner, and
takes focus away from the argument I think has more chance of
success (but even this I think is probably below 50%, but still
has a chance).
Dear TFL
Re PCN XXXXXXXXXX
I recently received the above referenced PCN in respect of
stopping in a box junction. Having reviewed the video evidence
you provided, I would like to submit representations on the
grounds that the contravention did not occur.
My car first enters the box junction at 16:30:17 on the clock
shown at the top left of the video. It initially comes to rest,
very briefly, at around 16:30:30 on the same clock, and during
this time (approximately one to two seconds) the car in front
continues to be in (slight) motion (i.e. it is not stationary
and so no box junction contravention can occur even if my car
does stop).
Having moved off again, my car then comes to rest again at
around 16:30:45 with what seems to be around half a cars length
within the box junction markings and remains stationary until
the end of the footage some 13 seconds later. Crucially during
this time the car is at the far end of the junction, some
distance from the video camera. Due to the distance, the camera
angle, and because there is a lamp post partially obstructing
the view, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reliably
assess the distance between my car and the stationary car in
front.
A box junction contravention involves causing a vehicle to enter
the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop [my emphasis]
within the box junction due to the presence of stationary
vehicles. It is well established that stopping with part of a
car within a box junction when this is not necessitated by a
stationary vehicle blocking the exit (for example when there is
sufficient room to fully exit the box junction) is not a
contravention. As such, in this instance, the evidence provided
is insufficient to demonstrate whether a contravention occurred.
On that basis, unless you have additional footage you can
provide which shows the position at the front of the box
junction more clearly, I look forward to the cancellation of the
PCN.
Kind regards,
If you can leave it 24 hours, you may get some additional
comments/improvements from others.
#Post#: 24268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: Hashim
Date: May 28, 2024, 10:50 am
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Thank you sir for this. I shall wait till tomorrow and then
submit the representation.
Hashim
#Post#: 26017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: Hashim
Date: June 14, 2024, 10:49 am
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Received a Notice of Rejection today:
Notice of Rejection
Thank you for your representation received regarding the above
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
In your representation you state that you that around half a
cars length was within the box junction markings and remains
stationary for 13 seconds. You also state that due to the
distance, reliably assess the distance between your car and the
vehicle in front. You also state that evidence provided is
insufficient to demonstrate whether a contravention occurred.
We issued the PCN because your vehicle was observed by a CCTV
Enforcement Camera, stationary within a yellow box
junction at the above location on the date of contravention.
Upon investigation we can confirm that your vehicle moved
unnecessarily into the box junction. The CCTV evidence clearly
shows your vehicle entering the box junction. Your vehicle
stopped in the box junction from 16:30:30 until 16:30:33 then
16:30:37 until 16:30:38 then 16:30:44 until 16:30:57, and was
stationary for a total of 17 seconds. The Traffic Signs
Regulations and General Directions 2002 and as amended 2011,
regulation 29(2) states that a vehicle is not permitted to
remain stationary within a Yellow Box Junction. Therefore, in
order
to comply with regulation 29(2) a driver must not allow their
vehicle to enter and stop in the box junction for any reason
other than the exception given in Schedule 19, 7(2) which allows
stopping in the box junction for the purpose of turning
right. In this instance, your vehicle was not observed
attempting to turn right. We are also able to confirm that this
box
junction has been authorised for use by the Department for
Transport and is therefore a legally compliant box junction. In
light of this and upon viewing the CCTV footage, we are
satisfied that a contravention occurred. We are therefore
unwilling
to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice and or reject.
It is the legal responsibility of every road user and business
operator to identify all the traffic laws that must be complied
with, and to then comply. The relief of congestion and the
improvement of traffic flows are of strategic importance to
London. The red routes are by definition roads that are
particularly sensitive to the disruptive effect of illegal
stopping. As
the Highway Authority with the responsibility for the
performance of the red route network, TfL places a very high
priority on
achieving full compliance with the restrictions and expects
every road user to plan and operate their road use fully within
the
law at all times.
Anything else we can do or should i submit on this one.
Thanks
Hashim
#Post#: 26049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 14, 2024, 12:04 pm
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Hi Hashim. Are you able to post up the actual rejection letter
rather than a transcript please? Leave everything visible other
than your name and address. Include all pages (other than the
forms for appealing to the tribunal).
It's no surprise you've been rejected as it's extremely rare for
the authority to accept, but the reply includes some nonsense
and doesn't actually address the substance of your
representations, i.e. that the evidence isn't clear enough as to
how much space there was to the car in front and therefore
whether you had to stop or could actually have moved out of the
box if minded to do so.
You never disputed stopping in the box junction so why they
spend most of the rejection explaining that you stopped and for
how long is beyond me.
Once the NOR is posted up we can discuss what to do next.
#Post#: 26293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 16, 2024, 1:14 pm
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[member=354]Hashim[/member] as above we need to see all sides of
all pages of the notice of rejection, not a transcript. Whether
you have a viable appeal will turn entirely on the NoR so we
really need to see it.
#Post#: 27135--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: Hashim
Date: June 22, 2024, 12:01 pm
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Hi
I am unable to upload any files as its exceeded the limit.
Please help as I am approaching the cut off date.
Thanks
#Post#: 27148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tfl Royal Docks E6
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: June 22, 2024, 1:24 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I am unable to upload any files as its exceeded the limit.
--- End Quote ---
Have a read of the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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